Guys, I'm still trying to figure this out myself. I've done some lurking here in the past, but I mostly stick to Sigforum. I started a thread over there about the same thing, so I thought I'd share it here and hopefully get some answers to some questions I couldn't over there.

Recent story is I wanted a stainless 9mm. I had a P229, but prices are a lot higher than I wanted to pay for a stainless Sig (~$1,000) and very, very, very few of those were used. At that rate, I would quickly run out of money.

My first conquest was a 5906TSW that was a PD trade in. Cost about $450. As soon as fondle the gun, I feel the solidness that the P226 and P229 didn't really have with the alloy frames. I love the 4" barrel length it gave, and I absolutely love the front checkered front strap. That was the #1 reason I went after the TSW model.

Last week, I found a 4566TSW on sale, this one had dim night sights and 3 mags vs 2 that the 9mm came with. I haven't shot it yet, but after fondling it, I really wonder why S&W has just stopped making these. I know they're heavy, but Sig seems to be making some big bucks on metal framed guns.

Even models like the 5904TSW alloy models are commanding the same price as their stainless brothers.

The few common elements that I love about both are:

1) Novak Sights. I love these sights. I wouldn't mind seeing a Novak "Straight-8" site, but that's about the only thing that could be improved. I know the newer ones have the front half cut down so you could rack the slide on one-handed drills, but it still doesn't affect sight picture.

2) Slide Safety. I though I would hate them just like the ones on the Beretta 92. That and the only 5906 I had shot previously had the ugly adjustable sights that I can not stand. This one I actually don't mind. I would prefer it frame mounted like either a 1911/USP or like the P22X decocker. I do like that I don't have to adjust my grip in order to use them. All of it is within thumb distance and snaps into place whereas with the 92 series, it's a little bit of a thumb wrestle.

3) Trigger! Both guns feel similar so I'm pretty sure they haven't had trigger jobs on them. The DA pull is easily the best DA pull I've ever had on a handgun. It's even better than my X5 Allround that had a trigger job. It feels like it's 6-8 lbs instead of 12 lbs. The SA trigger is one of the most impressive SA triggers I've shot and are on par the Sig P22X and the usual suspects (but not close to my X5 Allround).

4) Grips. This was E2 almost 25 years before we got it (and I really like the E2 Sig grips). Minor question on this, but is there any other grips for these guns that don't massively fatten up the grip like the Hogue Wood grips do?

So why were these so forgotten? I promise you, a P220ST is not $450 better than the 4566TSW (used prices). I know during some of the time that their masters had sold out to the Andrew Cuomo and the Clintons.

How much was price a factor? On the used market right now, the Alloy guns are going for the same as the Steel guns. Even among the "forgotten" guns, I still can't find pricing data on the Alloy framed guns. I know that the Stainless versions were about $150-$200 more than the Stainless Sigs, but no store near me stocked any of the Alloy guns except the Value Line.

Anyway, for the prices that are out there for a basic 5906, everybody owes it to themselves to buy at least 1 5909/6909 to experience the sensation of these.

And I know "pics or it didn't happen," so here's a very quick shot:



Now if someone could just point me towards a reasonable priced 4006TSW, I'd like to complete the set. I still can't find a 4026 KCPD model anywhere that wasn't a 4 year old closed auction.

Your set won't be complete without a 10XX in addition to the 40XX.

Very interesting Dan. Thanks for sharing your your thoughts and perceptions on your 3rd Gens. I found them very interesting and informative, especially since I do not own any alloy 3rd Gens. You are so right regarding dollars spent vs. value received. It's getting harder but The 3rd Gen Smiths can still often be found at almost cheap prices. I like Sigs (I own 3) but I am not going to buy anymore unless I just stumble onto a sweet deal. I can get so much more for my $$$ in S&W.

Regarding grips/stocks, I do like the Hogue rubber. I have them on my 4006 and 4506. They especially work well on the 4506. Also, like you I do not like the adjustable sights. I would prefer my 5906 had a version of the fixed sights. All of my S&W fixed sight guns (both revolvers and semis) work perfectly for me.

Since my all steel 3rd Gens are all range and field guns the extra weight does not bother me. I guess it's just the opposite. I love to feel the heft and solidness when I pick them up. That being said, I would definitely be open to purchase a nice single stack, alloy 9mm, 3rd Gen. Not sure what the model number would be for such a gun, but I'm sure it exists.

Congrats and welcome to the club! There's no hope for you now!

I really like the 3rd gens as well for both range and carry. (I'm up to two in five months and that's only because school bills are taking priority.)

The Aluminum framed ones do seem to cost the same except for the blued non TSW ones like the 5904's and 3914's.

Also don't over look the value line guns, I've shot a 457 some and for $500 LNIB I'd be happy to buy one as a truck or carry gun.

You owe it to yourself to try and pick up a PC 3rd gen at around $1000 they are as much a deal as the TSW's are for $450. My Shorty 45 MK2 is amazing, it's like getting a Wilson Combat 1911 for a grand!

Just because we all like photos, here's my Shorty 45 MK2 and 4567. (The duo tone version of your 4566.)

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I believe you are looking for a 3906 or 3904, but they are steel framed. The 3913 fits your criteria, but it's DAO.

CORRECTION: I don't know what I was thinking, but I got it wrong. The 3913 is TDA, not DAO. Sorry for the misinformation!

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Lounge Lizard Extraordinaire

How about a 6906 to add to that collection.

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handlebar-proud to be American

Yep! Welcome to the addiction... opps, I meant the CLUB! Yeah, that's it, the CLUB!

I'm with the OP in all aspects of the '3rd Gens.' Apple Pie, Flatheads and S&W 3rds. FOR EVER!

Darn! I just gave myself a nostalgic twinge. While in high school, I had a '46 Ford Pickup with the Flathead V-8. My Dad and I built a twin exhaust system out of 2"dia. water pipe with NO mufflers. What a great sound. I should never have let that old truck go. .......... Big Cholla

The 3913 is not DOA, that would be the 3953. 3913 is TDA.

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God, country, family.

The 3rd generation guns are not forgotten by those who own them, although sometimes it seems that S&W has developed 3rd gen amnesia.

My first one was a LNIB 5906. Great shooter, but very heavy to carry. After that it was a number of years before I bought another. A friend of mine had a 6906 that I always wanted. I made him promise to sell it to me if he ever got rid of it. Unfortunately, he has a memory like a sieve so he ended up trading for something else. It took a few more years before I found a LNIB one at a very reasonable price.

I carried that for personal protection until discovered the 3914/3913 guns. The perfect balance of reliability, concealability, accuracy, and other positive attributes.

Why did S&W abandon the line except for a few large LE agencies that can arm twist them into making new ones?

Money. Thank Gaston Glock for that. S&W has long depended on the lucrative and large LE market for the bulk of sales. Glock cut into that and as a result Smith developed a series of different polymer framed guns to compete.

Oh, and the on going popularity of 1911 style guns contributed.

Much of S&Ws forging capacity goes to making 1911 frames and slides for the 1911 and M&P guns.

Too bad, because if they continued to make the 4513 and the 3913, they'd sell a lot of them. Of course that means that M&P compacts in 9 and 45 would sit on store shelves.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

I'd like to agree. But, one factor here is cost. The gen3 guns were not cheap to start with. We now think of most of them as $4-500 guns. Back in the day, the TSW models were double that if I recall correctly. If S&W were to make these guns today, I suspect most all models would be priced north of $1000. The standard E series 1911 is priced around $800. Can't see them being any cheaper than that for sure. I don't know if I'd spend that kind of money on a gen 3. At $400 and less, I've bought quite a few of them.

All I know is my $389 lightly used 4566 with dim night sights is a lot more gun for the money than my $400 ATI 1911.
I like my ATI 1911 (Commander sized) a lot.
I like my 4566 better.

BTW, the Hogue rubber grips on a 4566 feel about the same as the factory grips on a 5906, thickness wise.
They feel a lot better to me than the narrow stock grip.
The Hogue rubber grip on a 5906 is too thick for my paw.

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What would Jim Cirillo do?

I think they could do it (i.e., bring back at least some 3rd Gens as "special editions", etc.), but they won't. The 1911 "me too" stuff aside, management has bet the farm on highly-profitable plastic and too bad if we don't like it. Best we can do is buy whatever top condition used 3rd Gens we can find and be happy we can still do that before prices continue up right through the roof.

Living in MA, I probably wouldn't be able to buy a special edition 3rd Gen anyway. S&W would probably not spend the money to put it on the MA-approved handguns roster. And even if they did, the MA-compliant triggers would likely be totally awful.

I think there is a market for 3rd gen style guns. Sig makes some and they seem to sell. Sig makes some polymer framed guns, but most of theirs are metal. Beretta seems to do well making metal guns.

I limited my thought on reintroduction to two single stack versions of the 3rd gen guns. I think the law enforcement ship has sailed on them except for the few agencies that still use them and for which S&W provides support.

I know that this will cause the vapors among some people, but the 3rd generation guns are far superior to the 1911. I have never owned a 1911 and don't have any plans to.

I know that S&W makes a lot of money on AR and 1911 style guns, as well as the M&P guns, but I think they could find a market for the two 3rd gen guns I mention. They won't, but they could.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

The Hogue wrap around grip on my 6906 makes it the best fitting hand gun I own. I only wish that they had made them for 9mm compact guns.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

^ As always, YMMV.
We all have different hand sizes.
What feels great to one, is not right for another.

I think most of us can probably agree on the .45 grip.
It's very thin.

The reason the Hogue 5906/6906 grip doesn't work for me is because it makes the grip too thick for my finger length.
Someone with long fingers will probably find it to be perfect for them.

On a 5906, the straight back grip works best for me.
On a 5946, the arched works best for me, although the straight would be good too.

On a 3906???????? Dunno. Don't have one. Haven't found one I could afford. It's not like they come up for sale every day.
Shame they didn't make them longer than they did. I always like the look and premise of it.

A 3rd gen Smith is a lot of gun, especially for the money.
I love 1911s, but Smith sold a LOT of 3rd gen guns.
They must have been doing something right.

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What would Jim Cirillo do?

I took the Hogue grips off my 4566. Couldn't reach the trigger. The straight plactics fit me much better.

What about Hogue Handall on the 9mm Compact?

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What would Jim Cirillo do?

One of the reasons why S&W couldn’t sell enough 3rd generation autos to continue cataloging them was that it was risky for retailers to stock them. During the 1990s it was common to see police surplus 3rd generation autos for $300 to $400 while new models with similar MSR prices retailed for $550 to $600. A retailer bought a new one at the risk that a large PD would flood their market with the same model leaving their new gun very unlikely to sell. Floods of surplus will continue to diminish but there are so many used examples of the common 3rd generation models that very few buyers would pay for new ones.

3904 was the blued single stack 4" TDA 9mm. Available with both fixed and adjustable sights it was essentially the most modernized model 39. There was no equivalent aluminum framed stainless pistol but but but the sub-compact 3 1/2" aluminum framed stainless TDA 3913 and DAO 3953 are common.

The p229 and I have a SAS 229 in .357 is a solid piece of metal, the p228 is stamped (slide). Sig makes some good firearms, used LEO 3rd gens can make good options but just because they are less money does not make them better. The Sig .357 round is a little bit better than a standard 9mm on par with S&W 40 calibers.

Good call actually. When I got my pre rail 3913TSW it had Hogue grips on it that had been modified to fit. The were nice, except that the pushed my middle finger into the edge of the trigger guard. Not very comfortable and it led to me shifting my grip.

I took those off and put stock grips on. Better on my finger, but loose in my hand.

Then I saw your post and had a "Duh!" moment. I actually used the Pachmayr version. Feels pretty good, but I'll have to see about trying the Hogue version. It's cheap enough to tack on to my next Brownell's or Midway order.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

You are exactly right, sir. I stand infected...

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Lounge Lizard Extraordinaire

What? Ever shot a Colt Gold Cup National Match, Nighthawk custom, ever seen any Novak's guns? I love Smiths and they made some great 3rd gen pistols but there are benchmarks of certain guns that each company represents. Sig makes a great .357 sig weapon, Smith makes a great 40 caliber (4006 based weapons) and Colt makes an awesome 45 caliber (1911) that can be made better with a little gunsmith work.

Ever shot the Browning Hi Power? IMO the best 9mm ever made as far as feel and balance go. I love Smiths do not get me wrong and the LEO pieces hit the market and they are a good deal but to say a 3rd gen 45 Smith is better than a 1911 is like saying a Toyota is better than a Lexus or a Chevrolet is as good as a Cadillac.

If I were a smarter man, I'd stay wide & clear of this dubious debate. But whoever said I was smart?

I think it all boils down to one's personal definition of the word "superior" as it applies to .45 ACP handguns... and, specifically to 3rd Gens vs. 1911's.

On the one hand, you could legitimately declare the 1911 the superiority winner just based on the fact that S&W gave up on its 3rd Gens and now makes and sells 1911's instead.

On the other hand, while the 1911 is truly a timeless, classic design (and we should all own at least one!), I think you can make a good case that the 3rd Gen .45's are a whole lot more modern, advanced and practical, especially for carry. And while in production, before cheap plastic guns became all the rage, I'll bet a lot more cops were carrying 3rd Gens than 1911's.

Truth is that you are both right. Just depends on what your priorities are. I own a couple of Colt 1911's but I can't wait to get my hands on a 4506-1. And if S&W ever re-introduced a special edition 4513TSW, I would get a third mortgage on the house just to be able to own one.

Can't honestly say I'd ever do that for another 1911.

I've shot a couple of 1911s. They were nice. They were also twice what I'd pay for a 45xx gun.

Since the 1911 was never designed or intended to be a highly accurate competition gun, the good ones require a ton of custom work and money to be the great shooters they are.

Is a S&W 1911 out of the box more reliable or accurate than say, a 4506 out of the box?

The best 1911 I've shot was an Ed Brown custom that a friend of mine bought directly from the company. 3.5 pound trigger pull, very accurate, and fun to shoot. I forget what he paid for it, but it was in the low four figures.

My 5906 is just as accurate and a lot of fun to shoot without any custom work.

Brownells has page after page of custom parts for 1911s. There's a reason for that.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

Unlike most 1911's, the 3rd gen 45's "break-in period" (a term coined by Kimber to excuse their shoddy QA/QC) ends when you take it out of the box.

DanHend welcome to the forum! Regards 18DAI

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7 +1 Rounds of hope & change

Fortunately, I didn't have any liquid in my mouth or you'd owe me a new keyboard!

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Can open, worms everywhere.

Bought my two 4006s as leo trades for 250 ea less than 2yrs ago.

Well, everyone else is doing it so I may as well. I'm going to urinate in someone's Cheerios.
I love 1911s and SIGs.
That said, I've always found 3rd gen Smiths to be better looking than 1911s (even when I was a S&W hater).

I also consider 3rd gen S&Ws to be equal to SIGs, but more affordable due to the lack of German/Swiss arrogance.

I've never seen the reliability issues in 3rd gen Smiths that I've seen in 1911s. (Did I just say that?)

I grew up a Colt fan. You couldn't give me a Smith, etc, etc, etc.

Then, I grew up and realized I could like several brands.

To me, there's never been a better looking autopistol than a 3904/3906 or 5904/5906 with a SQUARE triggerguard.
There, I said it. I stand by it.

I love 1911s and BHPs. Great guns.
But my 3rd gen Smiths make me feel like a giggly schoolgirl.

Then, there's my 52-1.
That was my grail pistol for 34 years. Even when I hated S&Ws. Go figure.
I never claimed to make any sense.

I even like the way my 5946 looks. And I love the way it feels.

Hell, I think the break-in period for a 3rd gen Smith is racking the slide to chamber the first round so you can take it's virginity.

None of my 1911s would ever chamber empty brass and they all needed work to reliably cycle HP ammo.

The one place a 1911 has it all over the vast majority of SA pistols (except my 52-1) is trigger pull.

All you on this forum have corrupted me into a S&W fan.
Congratulations.
9 S&W revolvers ad 5 S&W autos.
I hope y'all are really damned proud of yerselves.
Ya done corrupted me and violated my Colt-ish-ness.

And, it all started with a 31-1 I got a year (or so) ago, because I figured I might as well own one S&W.

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What would Jim Cirillo do?

Minor drift, but if I had to name my favorite handgun that wasn't a 1911 (they're like F1 cars, so far in their own league they can only compete against each other), it would be a Stainless Sig. What makes me love the 3rd Gen Smiths (namely the TSW line), is they're about 90% what I love about Stainless Sigs at a much better price used.

The main things that keep them from advancing is I do like any kind of safety/decocker on the frame instead of the slide. For me, it takes up too much of the slide and limits you to how much serrations you can have. S&W did it much better than Beretta in that there's no way you can accidentally hit the safety. The other part is the rail does strike me as a "F--- you, give me money" upgrade.

I would certainly be all in for a 4566 Melonite, and I wouldn't care if it had the WVSP billboard on the slide. I do really like the integrated frame rail.

The biggest question I still have is what were the Alloy TSW going for compared to the Steel version? I remember the Value Line being about $450 new in my area (KCMO), but I never knew Alloy versions existed until I started digging.

The other part I still don't get is why are the new S&Ws more expensive than Sigs? In the used market, Sigs hold their value a lot better, but the 3rd Gen guns were MSRPd more than the Stainless Sigs until about right now. S&W's 1911s run higher than Sigs, but S&W doesn't have to import anything from Germany where everything is more expensive.

I also saw a 4026 that had the KCPD logo laser etched. Anyone know where I could score one for a reasonable fee?

You mean like this?



I ordered both a Handall and a Handall Jr. The Handall Jr. was too small for my liking. The Handall required some trimming around the bottom of the grip, but seems to work OK.

I carry it this way until the next time I can get to the range and see how I like it.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

I have said before, and will say again. S&W should make a small run every so often of the latest (real Picatinny rail) version of the 3rd Gens. For example, the 4006CHP, the 4566 and the 5906 and 5946NY. The compact 3953 would go over well also, made in limited numbers.

If they can make, and sell, small runs of certain other models, it seems like they could do a small run of these every so often.

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with the M&P line that nearly a decade of product improvement has not mostly corrected, but the 3rd Gens had 50 years of development behind them, and their reliability and dependability was beyond question. I suppose it could be argued that the 1076 is the one exception, but on the other hand, prepping the trigger is just plain BAD training, and the only people who had issues were people who insisted on pulling the trigger part of the way back and holding there in times of trouble. Works fine on a square range, but not so much in "real life." Operated correctly, the S&W 3rd Gens are very fine.

I am sure if we could come up with enough people on here to get a 30-50 grand order in then they would build us any third gen we want. They will still build them for the right price and the right department.

The 3953 is a DAO gun. The 3913 and 3914 are single action pistols.
I own all 3 models, and you cant go wrong with any of them.

The idea of Special order/ limited run guns ...... comes out of the shadows if you visit Wilson Combat and/or the Beretta Forum........

Wilson is offering a "Special Tactical 92" put together at his specs. He had to order 1000 guns to get Beretta to build them...... they are selling for $1,200; so I guessing it was a "Million Dollar order!!!"


I stopped buying at the 3rd Generation Smiths....... 3913/14, 6906/04, 59xxs and 4566...... love the value for the money of the 915s ....... and the 4 PC guns..... 2 Shorty style 9mm's an SD-9 and a IDPA 5906 are the best of the breed!

Through the late 90s and early 21st century....... I accumulated my current primary carry guns (3913/14 and PC 6906) plus back-up and back-ups to the back-ups.......LOL ........... at great prices. Extra mags could be picked up for as little as $10-14......... so I'm GTG

So do you think we can get together enough interest here for a WVSP special order 4566TSW?

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We're done with the bickering.

Thank you. Carry on...calmly please. I "like" third gens!

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RIP Shipmate

I think the problem is that there is basically only one model of 92, although there are some variations.

There are a couple of dozen, at least, 3rd generation models. The 4566TSW is nice, but I wouldn't be interested. Others would like a 4006TSW as used by the CHP. And so on.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

Oh man! And here I was counting on you to take at least two!

Wasn't this recently discussed here? I think someone even contacted a noted distributor about handling a "special order". I can't recall what the minimum piece count was, but I remember thinking it would take every active member here to buy one to make it feasible.

Don't get me wrong......I forked out $1600 for a pristine WVSP 4566TSW......it is unreal.

Smith & Wesson is NOT going to bring back the 3rd gennies.

I think we have just about beat this topic to death. They aren't gonna do it.

The few people in the shooting world that would pay $1500+ for one all post on this forum......and even that might be optimistic.

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Un-Reconstructed Southerner

I just got back from shooting my new 4566TSW, and I've got to say the Smith and Wesson's "performance" on the M&P is pretty unforgivable.

This trigger on this thing is INCREDIBLE. The DA was light and rolled perfectly. It didn't have a break point like an SA, but you can tell pulling the trigger you're at 25%, 50%, don't pull any further, and BANG. The SA trigger is excellent, and the gun was very accurate.

How could S&W do such a terrible job on the M&P trigger? I shouldn't have to buy an M&P and then junk all the internals for all Apex parts (while better aren't to the 3rd Gen trigger level).

This isn't a question of plastic junk vs. metal greatness. Just about everyone on this board is a Sig Pro fan or P320 fan, and they're both plastic. The problem is going from a level a quality with the 3rd Gen or their revolvers to something far less refined and developed and telling people that would still buy their products, "**** you, buy my ****."

I also got a chance today to fire my new to me USP .40. Not only is it the smoothest shooting .40 I've ever fired (including the Sig P229 and Beretta 96/90-two). The other part I loved about it is that it's the LEM version. It's a long travel, but towards the end, you can feel the SA break.

The systems are close enough that I'd love to see a 4th Gen that takes M&P mags, get some more impressive grip shells as far as aggressivness and so forth. At this point it would probably need to by a stainless frame as their last Price list when they made everything, alloy frames were only $100 less than steel. If that's the case, that has a whole bunch of stuff that I'd be interested in getting.

So Stainless Frame, M&P mags and ergos, a S&W LEM trigger, integral light rail, and I'll buy several.

If need by, just add some bits of that into the M&P and you've just got something that will help cross over both generations.

Sig seem to be doing a good job selling both plastic and metal guns, why can't S&W? You'd have to lower your prices a bit because there's little reason something built here should cost more than something built with parts from Germany/EU. I think in the next few years, the Sig P320 and the VP9/40/45 is going to cut into the M&P.

A few years ago I picked up a 3rd gen, held it and said, "Dang, I like this". It felt like it was made for me. The DAO trigger worried me for about three shots and after the first mag I was doing pretty good. I'm SO glad I got one of these.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Yeah, I know. I've admitted it here before. But I can still dream can't I?

Sig seems to be drifting slowly toward all plastic... but at least for now, their metal guns are still alive.

I have a confession to make. I've always wanted to like Sig. I have tried my very best to understand Sig and to accept Sig's all-metal handguns as a fine, albeit expensive, alternative path away from the disturbing trend toward more and more cheap plastic. Too bad for me that none of the Sig metal handguns feel really "right" in my hands. A couple have come close, but still no cigar.

Old and stubborn as I am, I may end up being the very last all-metal pistol fan in the entire world. Or at least sometimes it feels that way. The list of approved, brand new, all-metal DA/SA or DAO pistols is not that large here in highly-restricted Massachusetts... so it really bugs me that Sig doesn't seem to make a pistol that fits and works in my apparently somewhat unique hands.

Exact same feeling here. From my very first 3rd Gen, a Model 6906, I knew I'd found something very special... something that was made just for me, or at least something that felt that way. Now, there is no going back. I understand that plastic has its place, and I do own more than a few modern plastic wonders, but there is no good substitute for the real deal.

Not a Beretta shooter/collector are you.....LOL there are many variations of the 92:
M9, Commerical, Centurion, compact, single stack M, Elite, EliteII, Inox( stainless) in the aforementioned.........etc. etc...........