659 trigger action

Hi Guys. I picked up a 659 and sent it to S&W for a function check and refinish. They did a great job on the refinish. She looks almost new. But I’m not sure about the trigger/action work. I expected S&W to replace any worn springs and parts, and check function. They didn’t call me at any point except for payment authorization, and the paperwork that was returned with the gun was just a packing slip without any notes as to what work was done. I would like your opinion as to whether it needs more work. Sorry to say, I’m clueless as to the internal parts and assemblies. But I do know that something doesn’t feel right with the trigger.

In my dry fire testing, the hammer is fully forward and the trigger is at rest. The de-cocker/safety is disengaged, i.e., ready to fire. I have two brand new 10-round MecGar mags with packaging labeled as “S&W 5900". The mags are stamped “MG-SW59-9MM”. I have a snap-cap in the chamber and another in the mag. I haven’t fired it at the range yet.

When I press the trigger during dry fire, there is about 1/8” of play. Then as I continue to press the trigger, after about 1/4", there is an abrupt “snag” as if an internal part catches on something, then clears it. This happens at the point where the hammer is half-cocked. I.e., if I release the trigger just after I feel that snag, the hammer remains at half-cocked position. If I continue to pull the trigger after the snag, it eventually breaks as expected for a DA trigger. Needless to say, the snag in the middle of the trigger press is quite a distraction.

After the trigger breaks and the hammer drops, and I release the trigger, I get the initial reset as expected. As I continue to release the trigger, I get the snag at the same point as in the trigger press, and before the trigger comes to rest.

Is what I describe normal for a 659? Are the MecGar mags are out of spec? If I call S&W, would they have information on what was done to the gun? Thanks for any and all comments.

Update: I just thought I'd add that I'm not too impressed with the single action trigger either. With the hammer fully cocked, the single action is rather gritty as well. So I think for sure I need to send it back to S&W.

Comments about the action would be pure speculation as to the cause. If you have a S&W pistol armorer in your area, you could have him evaluate the action work, if there was any performed. Perhaps Customer Service could provide some additional details as to exactly what was done in terms of springs and parts replaced.

If you are convinced something may be wrong, then you should contact S&W and send it back.

The magazines are probably not the issue, unless you see drag marks on the sides of the magazines produced by the drawbar. MecGar mags usually work fine, although you can't evaluate their performance fully without shooting the gun.

Also, since you had the gun re-finished, please post some photos of the work. I'm sure most everyone here on the forum would appreciate it. Many are contemplating a re-hab of some kind, so it would be great to see the results you experienced, and to know the approximate costs involved.

TriggerHappy1 said:

Are the MecGar mags are out of spec?

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While anything is possible, I highly doubt this, as MecGar makes the factory mags for most handguns we see. GARY

What was the trigger like before you sent it to S&W for work ?

If it was mine I would field strip it and spray it good with Gunscrubber, blow it out good with compressed air and lube it. Then I would take it out and shoot a couple of boxes of ammo and see what it was like. My 659 didn't have a very good trigger on it till I shot it a LOT. Now it's sweet.

"What was the trigger like before you sent it to S&W for work ?"

i got several ProMags with the gun. Took it to the range without even dry firing at home first. It was unshootable. Almost every shot failure to feed or misfeed. That's what led me to have S&W do a check-up on it. Wasn't sure if it was the mags or the gun. Now that I attempt to dry fire with the ProMags, I realize that was part of the the problem; with the ProMags, the trigger press is basically all take-up, i.e., there's no tension on it, and it doesn't even budge the hammer... UNLESS I push the ProMag completely up into the mag well; i.e., overseat it. Then the action is the same as I described with the MecGar mags. So yes, the ProMags suck, but the trigger still sucks even with the MecGars.

Under normal conditions, the trigger "feel" is not (should not be) affected by the presence of a magazine. If the magazines are having such an affect, then there may be a problem with the drawbar on the gun dragging on the magazines themselves....or the magazines my be out of spec.
Have you tried an OEM magazine.

Mec-Gar 59-series mags are 0.005" FATTER than S&W factory 59-series mags.

This caused a problem with my 659.
See http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-sm...when-returned-fire-postion-after-de-cock.html

You don't need to send the gun to Smith and Wesson to have it cleaned.
Strip it as far as you feel comfortable, and drown the various parts in Break-Free.
Blow the excess out with compressed air. I don't own a compressor. I use the canned air sold for keyboard dusting.
Work the parts through their normal ranges of motion to dislodge any crud that may have accumulated.
By all means, get the firing pin out, and clean that firing pin channel!
See http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-smithing/176021-generation-3-semi-auto-firing-pin-removal.html

TriggerHappy1 said:

When I press the trigger during dry fire, there is about 1/8” of play. Then as I continue to press the trigger, after about 1/4", there is an abrupt “snag” as if an internal part catches on something, then clears it. This happens at the point where the hammer is half-cocked. I.e., if I release the trigger just after I feel that snag, the hammer remains at half-cocked position. If I continue to pull the trigger after the snag, it eventually breaks as expected for a DA trigger. Needless to say, the snag in the middle of the trigger press is quite a distraction.

After the trigger breaks and the hammer drops, and I release the trigger, I get the initial reset as expected. As I continue to release the trigger, I get the snag at the same point as in the trigger press, and before the trigger comes to rest.

Is what I describe normal for a 659?

Click to expand...

I think it is normal.
It sounds like what you are feeling is the "half-cock" notch of the hammer dragging across the spring loaded sear.
The half-cock notch was on all S&W 1st and 2nd gen autoloaders (like your 659), and so many people felt it was "quite a distraction" that S&W eliminated it on the 3rd gen pistols.

John

"I think it is normal."

Correct. I called S&W, and they said the same. It's an example of issues that let to refinements in 3rd gens. They said the purpose for half-cocked position is as a safety feature. it can be fixed by replacing the (drawbar plunger?) spring or grinding out the half-cock notches.

I just replaced the hammer with a 3rd gen hammer I had. It was a 639.

JohnHL said:

I think it is normal. It sounds like what you are feeling is the "half-cock" notch of the hammer dragging across the spring loaded sear. The half-cock notch was on all S&W 1st and 2nd gen autoloaders (like your 659), and so many people felt it was "quite a distraction" that S&W eliminated it on the 3rd gen pistols.

Click to expand...

TriggerHappy1 said:

Correct. I called S&W, and they said the same. It's an example of issues that led to refinements in 3rd gens. They said the purpose for half-cocked position is as a safety feature. it can be fixed by replacing the (drawbar plunger?) spring or grinding out the half-cock notches.

Click to expand...

Very interesting... especially given that I'm seriously considering putting on layaway (via phone) what would be my very first 2nd Gen, a Model 459. I do not recall the "snag" when I played with it in the shop, but maybe that just means I didn't play with it long enough or wasn't paying close enough attention to function vs. condition.

Anyway, very glad for this thread and these posts. I'll wait until I can get out to the shop again and inspect it further before making any commitment to purchase.

Thanks guys!

Some people pull the trigger right over it without missing a beat. In double action drills, I don't notice it at all unless I'm looking for it. I don't do a da squeeze slowly, there is no point in it for me. If I have that much time for controlled trigger squeeze, I'm shooting in sa..

The second gen triggers I've used are not as nice as the 59 triggers in SA, I imagine because of the fpb safety. This is similar to other da/sa guns I've used that have versions with and without the fpb, like the cz's.

All said, it depends on how you shoot and train. You may never notice the half cock notch click, or it may bug you...

I have the same feeling with trigger
Half way through the da pull
When resetting trigger on dry firing
Completely disassembled and cleaned, replaced trigger bar and still does the same. As this is my first s&w auto, appears to be normal if other guns functions the same

When all else is equal (of course this is rare), the triggers across all three generations tend to rank like this:

BEST DOUBLE ACTION
1) the MIM black trigger/hammer 3rd Gens
2) the earlier non-MIM silver trigger/hammer 3rd Gens
3) the 1st Gen 39/59
4) the 2nd Gens

BEST SINGLE ACTION
1) 1st Gen 39/59
2) MIM parts 3rd Gen
3) non-MIM 3rd Gen
4) the 2nd Gens

Obviously this doesn't include 52's, PC guns and the SAO 745 or the DAO 3rd Gens, as every one of those is wildly different than the traditional DA/SA pistols.

Why have I come to these conclusions?
Well, the 1st Gens simply had the hand work of genuine skilled craftsman. The 2nd Gens added a firing pin block safety (a VERY good idea!) but it definitely impedes the travel of the trigger. The 3rd Gens have more modern parts that required less fitting and the MIM-part 3rd Gens have very precise, very close tolerance small parts.

With the subject 659, it almost sounds like the magazine disconnect safety may be somewhat out of spec -- still functioning but NOT smoothly.

Unfortunately, I would say that I am one of the "bitter, crusty old guys" that absolutely believes the children working at S&W right now wouldn't recognize a 1-2-3rd Gen if you greased it up and inserted it sideways up their exhaust pipe. Which is my way of suggesting that I think those idjets at S&W are a bad group to send a 659 to if it needs help. Not saying I am right... just saying how I feel.

TriggerHappy1 My 669 function as you describe except my trigger pull is what I consider lite with a 8lb 7oz da 3lb 4oz sa . Like others said clean up and lube. blow out and shoot a 100 rounds . I don't have a mac gar mag to try to see if that changes anything as the 12 and 15 rounders I have are all s&w branded .