usually I shy away from non standard stuff, but what are the thoughts on the 1911 external extractor on S&W 1911 ? any issues, see a deal and want to build a pin gun

Joe I have a "Doug Koenig" .45 with the external extractor.
Never a moments trouble. Not a great deal of rounds yet, (bout 2000), but function is perfect with one exception.(Not the extraction !)
It has an ambi-safety and somehow my normal 1911 Government grip managed to activate the safety without meaning to.

No real problem, (at the range), and a call to S&W brought me a single-side thumb safety 3 days later in the mail that fit in perfectly.

Some of the most reliable semi-autos in the world have external extractors. First of course must be the Browning model of 1935 known as the "Hi-Power". The Colt 1903 and 1908 hammerless pistols also have external extractors and normally perform 100 %.

I once held personal objections to the externals and preferred the internal type, but now, I am not so sure the external isn't a better design. Perhaps not better; but certainly not worse.

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wanna do right-- not right now

thanks, leaning toward SW

Grab it, there's nothing wrong with an external (or an internal, for that matter). Strictly a decision at the manufacturing level, unless you get crazy with your customization.

I like the external better. I have a few Sig 1911s and they do it that way. Adjusting the tension on the internal extractor is a tedious exercise, and I don't want to do it anymore.

The internal extractor seems to work just fine for over 100 years so I guess I'll stick with it. If it ain't broke - why fix it?

In about 1962, FN changed the extractor on the Hi Power from internal ( like the 1911) to external for improved reliability and ease of maintenance.. The HPs with the internal extractor were reliable for nearly 30 years, but military and LE clients opted for the external design. So I'm thinkin' S&W and Sig may have adopted this theory.

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John

It's one of those things that has to be right to work.....size, shape, width, angle...etc.. Several companies tried to varying degrees of success. S&W got it right.

While I don't own one I'm all for it if it makes it easier to fix. I have the original style but I'm not a fan of having to tune stuff because there is always that magic zone where it works but could be on the edge of failure. I prefer to push out a pin, put in a new part and be done!

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Smith has perfected the external's and they are problem free.

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Dave Ramsey Cultist

Not a true 1911..........just sayin!

What makes it any different than adding a extended safety or ambi safety or a rail. Is it still a true HiPower with an external extractor?

They're all true 1911s just with different features.

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Sure. While we're at it, dump the beavertail grip safety. And remember, no memory bump on that safety either, so make sure you grip it good. Oh, and make sure the sights are fixed and suck real bad. The thumb safety should be really teensy, and only available on one side. No frontstrap stippling, or checkering on the mainspring housing, which should be arched only! And the trigger should only come in one size: super short. Ammunition should be 230-grain ball, no fi-fi hollowpoints here, and they should be fed from a stamped 7-round magazine! None of this extruded, none of this 8-round nonsense, none of these bumpers for babies and all different followers for your little wadcutters. And spur hammers only, if you don't want it to snag on the draw you should tuck in your shirt, hippie!

1911s suck, but fortunately, they've had a little over 100 years of work done on them.

Also, bonus points if you realized I was mixing A1 and pre-A1 features to maximize sarcasm.

Yea I suppose you could look at it that way. IMHO it's JUST a marketing thing to sell more guns. If something works perfectly fine for over 100 years and someone comes up with what they deem a "better mouse trap" I am a little skeptical. I could understand it IF the internal one was malfunctioning. I suppose someone might have truly though it would be better, but a marketing ploy is what comes to mind.

I've spent the last 40 years in the Business World running 4 Businesses simultaneously and I believe I understand why many Company's do many things = marketing. Guess what........ most of the time it works (at least short term).

It's money, but not the way you think. An external extractor is a ton easier to fit and replace than an internal, so using them saves money. But when manufacturers wanted to do this, people flipped a friggin' lid--how dare anyone mess with the sacred works of John Moses Browning! Never mind the fact that so much had already changed that the guns rolling off the line had little to do with the original design, or even the WWII-era pistols.

So the manufacturers told everyone that the external extractors were better. Which was partly true. If you have to install an extractor really fast, the external is going to be way more reliable, because it takes less fiddly-work. You wouldn't have time to sit there and play with the internal extractor until it functioned--the end result would be that it's less reliable.

Once they got the myth rolling, then the public demanded the new extractor design.

I'm sure theres some of that too but a lot of the changes do make sense. I'm sure the new fancy rifling thing was thought of in the same way.... along with the new fancy semi autos.

- Extractor. Pull it out, bend it (tune it) put it back, make sure it works, if not pull it out again and bend some more. OR push out a roll pin put a new extractor on and done (test of course).

On new guns with external extractors (aside from factory lemons) how often do they need to be changed or tuned?

- Thumb safety. It's worked for a 100 years but it's small, set far back and not always easy to engage fast. New ones have a wide selection of styles to fit your hand and thumb better. Longer and wider are easier and faster to use.

-Grip safety. Original worked fine but the beaver tail works better.


Technically a sling shot and a rocks work but we've since went on to other things. Even the first firearms were almost useless



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I can change and tune an internal extractor at the kitchen table.

External needs to be held in a vise or things get difficult.

I have a Colt 45 acp made by Charles Daly.
It has all the nice features on it and it is very very accurate.
Yes, it is Filipino made. So what?
A fine weapon that is very very accurate with limited recoil.

Not a Colt but I once had a Llama heavy frame .45 which worked just fine with an external extractor. I had another different Llama semiauto with an internal extractor which broke on me and I had to fix it by welding. There are much more important things to worry about besides internal vs. external extractors. They both work.

I think when you buy even ~1000 dollar 1911's with internal extractors, there's a reasonable chance that the extractor will not be properly tensioned from the factory. Hilton Yam found that on factory Colt 1911's, about 1 out of 10 had bad extractor tension. And Colts were the company that he recommended as the most likely to work out of the box.

For someone who doesn't want to have to learn how to tension an extractor, and wants a gun to work 'like a glock or beretta' from the box, a good external extractor is probably the way to go.

I don't know about vices I never changed one but I did change one on an old Spanish Lima 1911 like gun and I did it at a kitchen table. Took a punch, pushed out the pin and pulled out the extractor. It took me longer to write this then take out that extractor

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Not so, I've removed and replaced my external extractors more than once on my 10xx series with just a cutting block with a handle at one end and the right punch and hammer?

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Dave Ramsey Cultist

Maybe you can.

But let's see, Hold the slide on the board, line it up to clear the pin. Hold the punch at the same time and give a few wacks with the hammer. Hope things don't go flying and parts get lost.

Does that about cover it.

Not really. I put the slide on the table. Put the punch on the pin and taped it. On the other side I used pliers and pulled it out while holding the slide in my hand, thumb over the extractor.

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I may be overly cynical but I suspect the external extractor is a manufacturing cost saving move, not something designed to improve something.

The marketing guys have taken over from there.

That's it! But it works.

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Dave Ramsey Cultist

This topic always gets defenders on both sides. C'mon guys! They both work and a 1911 is still a 1911 even if it wasn't actually made in 1911.

I'm not knocking either but I have 2 Smith 1911's and a slew of Smith autos 1st, 2nd and 3rd gens all with external extractors. Never an extractor issue of any kind.

To the OP...my humble opinion is to base your decision on something other than the extractor.

What he said!
I have both and never had any issues.

Being a handloader, I like my autoloading handguns to eject their empty cases into a catch net I put on the bench beside the gun or attach to a tripod if I'm standing up. I have owned 1911s with internal extractors and by "tuning " (read: bending) them, I was able to accomplish that but every year or so, I had to "retune" them. My S&Ws with external extractors haven't needed any "tuning" - they just politely deposit their empties to the same spot every time.

I get the purists preferring the looks of the slide without the external extractor but I got over it after shooting my first S&W 1911.

Ed

This type of thinking is a steaming pantload-the product of cranial rectal inversion.

Is the Ruger 10mm SR1911 with no barrel bushing and no staked plunger tube a real 1911??

Just thinkin!

Bruce

I prefer the cleaner look of the internal extractor, however if the deal was right, I'd jump on any of the S&W 1911's

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John 14:6, Luke 21:11

I have a Colt 1911 government .45. When I first got it it ejected everywhere. Back, straight up, in to the slide below the ejection port, one got me right below the eye. It wasn't tension but rather the contour of the end that pulls the empty case back to hit the ejector. It took me a couple times of filing and light sandpaper and for the last couple of years it ejects nice. I did not do anything to the ejector. There are like three places that really change the ejection pattern. It has never failed to eject a case but they were everywhere. Now I can stand in one place and pick up my spent brass without taking a step. The external extractor on my Glock 19 gen 5 also works great.
Peace,
Gordon

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better have that checked