Selling a gun.

Hi all,

I have been a fan of the shooting sports and this forum for many years and realize that I need help with a simple question. Lets say I want to sell my 645 and a forum member wants it shipped. Is the process Me to UPS to His FFL to him, or Me to my FFL to his FFL to him? I can't believe I never shipped a gun before. Thanks in advance.

Your choice-it is legal for you to send a sold gun to the buyers FFL with only a copy of your DL-or-you can have it sent by your FFL to his which costs more. The shipper will probably require a copy of the buyers FFL if you do the DL only method.

You can ship directly to HIS FFL dealer. You will need a copy of his FFL's license. I've done it many times before. Some carriers get squirrely about firearms but they don't know their company's or the fed's regulations on this.

My preference is to use my FFL to send to the buyer's FFL. Two reasons for this-- first, the buyer's FFL is legally allowed to receive from me but he may not WANT to, as it's his business and he gets to decide. But an even better reason is that my FFL (any FFL) is legally allowed to ship via USPS Priority as this is the lowest cost method of shipping.

Non-FFL's are not allowed to send a handgun via postal and UPS/FedEx require air shipment which ends up being quite expensive.

It's best to have a great local FFL that you deal with regularly. If you venture in to a huge retail gun store, their rates are typically unfriendly for FFL transfers. Small shops and dealers do much better.

My dealer has shipped out for me at a flat $35 rate. That gets me the gun logged, all packaging, postage, tracking and insurance to $1,000.

Some states or jurisdictions require outgoing firearms to go through an FFL to the buyers FFL. You'll need to check on your particular state and/or local regs.

You can ship directly to the buyer’s FFL by “common carrier” (FedEx or UPS). Their rules say overnight service only so it is expensive. An FFL can use USPS Priority Mail but will charge you a fee. The buyer usually pays shipping in any case.

If you ship from an ffl to an ffl and something happens to the shipment for example it is lost or stolen, you do not have to notify the atf and police your ffl does, as the last place the gun is listed was his bound book. That is worth a lot to me.

otis24 said:

You can ship directly to HIS FFL dealer. You will need a copy of his FFL's license. I've done it many times before. Some carriers get squirrely about firearms but they don't know their company's or the fed's regulations on this.

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Getting a copy of his dealer's FFL is where the problems often start. Many dealers DO NOT want to send a copy of their FFL to a non-FFL. They get a little paranoid about it.

Then there is also the shipping issue. You can do UPS of Fed Ex, but they generally won't ship a handgun any slower than second day air. That's because the longer it's in their system the greater the chance it'll get stolen.

By the time you pay $75 for shipping, you've covered the cost of the FFL's fee on your end plus his much less expensive shipping costs.

You can claim it's the buyer's responsibility to pay for shipping, but a smart buyer is going to ask for a shipping quote up front and adjust the amount he's willing to pay accordingly.

None of the FFLs I deal with will accept a shipment from a non-FFL. Their businesses, their choice, too bad for you.

But the members above are right: It is often cheaper to have your FFL ship it (depending on their fees) via USPS than for you to do it yourself via UPS or FedEx ... unless you decide to break a few of their rules, of course. I've seen that.

TTSH- got a UPS ground package from California with a pistol and two boxes of ammunition inside.

mckenney99 said:

Some states or jurisdictions require outgoing firearms to go through an FFL to the buyers FFL. You'll need to check on your particular state and/or local regs.

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What state or local jurisdiction require firearms to be shipped by FFL? I have heard of these " laws", but have never seen it in writing from any where. SO if you have it in writing please let me see it. Thank You.

UPS does not require overnight shipping on a handgun, they do require next day service and have 3 different levels. Make sure you know what company policy is before you go to ship UPS or Fed-ex, because they often will charge the highest price saying that is there rules , which is incorrect.

Probably the cheapest way is through a local dealer if your are not in NY,NJ, Ca. Also when your dealer books it, it now becomes his problem in case it gets lost or stolen. Be Safe,

Vipermd, I am no longer in the business, so I no longer have the reference materials or links we had. I ran a shop for over 9 years with daily incoming transfers and probably handled an average of one outgoing transfer a week, some weeks many more as we had a UPS account. Current memory issues preclude me from giving you the particulars you request.

I did the FFL to FFL using USPS Priority mail for the last one I shipped.
I got a copy of the receiving FFLs license emailed to me and printed it to give to the shipping FFL for the address & etc..
The gal behind the counter told me I should never carry around a copy of someone else's FFL, because it is illegal to have and I could get arrested for having it in my possession.

It took me some time to find an FFL that would accept transfers from an individual , so that may solv your question right there . Ask the guy you're selling to if he has an FFL that will accept from individuals .

I have done both , and FFL to FFL is cheaper , even with insurance . They can send 2 day air , where you would have to send it overnight .

I went through this recently . I bought a 4513TSW here , and we worked out a price . He went to send it , and I know it cost more than what he quoted having done this before . All I am saying is do your homework .

the big guy said:

TTSH - got a UPS ground package from California with a pistol and two boxes of ammunition inside.

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Oh, nothing like that would surprise me. To some folks, UPS and FedEx rules are just there to be ignored.

BC38 said:

The gal behind the counter told me I should never carry around a copy of someone else's FFL, because it is illegal to have and I could get arrested for having it in my possession.

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First I ever heard of that. I know that everything's illegal here in Massachusetts so nothing ever surprises me anymore... but can someone point out the specific law in this regard?

Just keep the gun...no matter what you do you loose money on shipping , handling and FFL costs .....or you go to jail .

Keeping it ends all the confusion.
Gary

I don't have to ship guns very often but when I do I take them to my local FFL. They only charge $25 and it goes USPS Priority Mail. Worth it just for peace of mind.

different strokes for different folks

I hold a 03 FFL, which is Curios & Relics so I can sell to out-of State buyers like everyone else, but I can only SHIP to full 01 FFL's or other holders of valid 03 FFL's.

OK...that's the way it is...the trouble arises when I actually go to Ship the firearm. Local Fed-Ex WILL TAKE IT as long as the wrapper is plain with no logos, or id of what's inside. However...Fed-EX is by far the most expensive, especially adding full insurance, and next day air...which is the only thing local Fed-Ex will do for me.

UPS is no good for me (and I have tried several UPS stations, not franchise kiosks either). I have to declare what's being shipped, the "ship to" is the buyers 01 FFL, and invariably, the buyers FFL is an address that starts with Joe Schmo Guns", Jack's Sporting Goods" or some other semi identifier that says "gun inside" so they reject me.

The LGS and other full 01 FFL's right around here have daily or weekly UPS route pickups so there is no question, the driver knows the firm and knows everything is packaged and off it goes.

Another problem like posted above is that even with my 03 C & R, the Buyers FFL sometimes (most of the time) won't accept inbound from anyone other than another full 01 FFL

We have only 1 local LGS that does outbound transfers and they are $75.00 before shipping costs and insurance so quite steep vs the $25 of days gone by when there were 4 competing LGS, but it is the only game in town, and still the safest, fully legal way with peace of mind for all parties involved.

I've sold and shipped rifles, shotguns, and handguns, but I like to take pride in shipping exactly what condition I would expect to receive if I were buying. I liked it when I could wipe down, package with proper bracing, protection and wrapping, stiff, new cardboard shipping boxes. Cost me very little, yet the firearm didn't arrive with fingerprints all over the bluing, rust from some LGS employee checking serial number with greasy pizza hands, etc.

Unfortunately, once you sign it over to the FFL for shipping it is now on his books, off of yours, and how and what materials he uses to ship, or care (or lack thereof) that his employees give it is out of your control, but it is still the only way for me anyway.

USPS? Forget it! Even the local postmaster won't take firearms no matter what, even if I try to point out written materials from USPS, and have the proper form filled out....they just say no.

Face-to-face where legal remains the best way in my opinion, but the OP just wants to sell and ship to wherever the buyer is so I'm saying 01 FFL to 01 FFL is probably the best bet.

Usually the buyer knows a FFL who will accept from a private party. So ask him who he deals with on his end. However, some FFL’s will only receive from other FFL’s. Not a law. Just how they prefer to do business. Either way, the buyer pays the shipping, so whether one, or two FFL’s are involved, the buyer pays it all, plus shipping. So ask the buyer what his choice is, since he’s paying. And as for shipping addresses, when I send a package, Joe’s gun shop is written “Joe’s Shop”. And some of you need to “hone up” on what to say at the shipping location. I never pay stupid rates, & the only question they seem to ask is “are you sending lithium batteries”. GARY.

My preferred FFL will only transfer from another FFL.