Federal 9bple +p

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saltydog452

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I was gifted a case of Federal 9BPLE +P.
My only s&w is a 3913LS. It has a single locking lug. I don't know if that and whatever internal lock-up is stout enough to handle this BPLE +P load.

Has anyone had any significant experience with +P in the 3rd Gen 39 series pistols?

Thanks
 
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From the horses mouth....

I copied the excerpt below from the S&W owner's manual shipped with the 3rd Generation firearms, in this case, my model 6906. I think this answers your question directly. Because of this specific warning by S&W, I would not fire the +P+ rated ammunition in any S&W auto.

Since your ammunition is commonly referred to as the "Illinois State Police load", I'm not sure how they (ISP) were authorized to use this ammunition in their issue guns, unless their contract guns were somehow "fortified" by S&W by using heavier springs. Perhaps someone who served with ISP can comment on this?



 
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That's some hot stuff.

I wouldn't use it in my Browning Hi-Powers, but I would use it, sparingly, in my Glocks or, without reservation, in my Ruger PCC or AR-9 (Heavy Buffer).
 
S&W 3rd gens are strong guns. Wouldn't think twice about it. However, I would probably not make it a steady diet of them. Heavy loads do beat guns up. The 908 doesn't have the locking lug on the barrel into the slide and it shoots standard 9mms just fine. The 3913 has the extra locking lug so, it is even stronger.

Rosewood
 
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I realize that use of 9MM +P+ ammo is very concerning to many gun owners. That being said, over some years, I have used my share of the 9BPLE in a variety of 9MM pistols and revolvers, to include 3rd. Gen S&Ws. It is reported that ISP used it for years in their aluminum framed S&Ws without disastrous results. Now I wouldn't care to shoot a case of +P+ through a single aluminum framed gun, but I suspect individual ISP guns digested a lot more than that. I've used enough 9BPLE, and Winchester 9MM +P+ to chronograph, verify reliable function, and carry. Both do display higher velocity than most 9MM +P I've chronographed. I say "most" because CorBon 115 JHP, rated at only +P, routinely generates higher velocities than 9BPLE. For instance, from a 3 1/2" barrel 9BPLE produced 1239 FPS, CorBon +P: 115 JHP 1344 FPS. I suspect that some of the other "Boutique" ammo rated at only +P would do the same.

So FWIW, in quality semi-auto pistols from several manufacturers, I've had no problems with Federal or Winchester +P+.....ymmv
 
Thanks for your response. I will not use the 9bple in the Sig 228 or the BHP. But since I have two 3913s and the 39 Series does have an extra bit of grenade preventitive, the le+p+ will see occasional range and some carry use. The price on the 9bple was real good.I

I appreciate the comments.
 
Since my dept was the one responsible for the development of the BPLE I can say I've run quite a bit of it. When we issued the BPLE I and all the Troops ran thousands of rounds thru 2nd and 3rd gen S&W autos every year. Normal dept order was about 7 million rds a year. During the time we were issued the BPLE our issued guns were the 439, 469, 5904 and 6904.
After the BPLE we went to the W-W 115 +P+. Not a lot of difference between the 2. Not long after going to the W-W rd one of our range officers was told by an officer in another agency that our 5904s would not stand up to the W-W +P+ rd. Our range officer took that as a challenge. He documented every rd fired thru his 5904 and he only fired the W-W +P+. At around 50,000 rds he noticed the accuracy was starting to worsen. His barrel was getting shot out so he replaced. He did replace the springs are regular interval but I don't recall at what round count he replaced springs. When he retired he had documented 80,000 rds thru his issued 5904. He bought that gun when he retired and when I saw him a couple of months ago he was still shooting it. He retired about 20 years ago and has been shooting that same gun since retirement.
This is not saying your 3913 or any other alloy S&W will go 80,000+ rds. His gun might have just been a particularly good one. It was his issued gun so he might have just gotten the luck of the draw when his was issued. But at least 1 gun I know of that has a documented round count and is still running.
Personally I ran many thousands of rds of BPLE thru my 459 when I was one SWAT. I ran on average at least 50 rds a week thru it of the BPLE for several years. I still have the 459 and it's a great shooter. Other than blue wear it doesn't show any peening or indications of high pressure wear.
 
How about the full size M&P? Reckon it's strong enough?
 
saltydog452 said:
I was gifted a case of Federal 9BPLE +P.
My only s&w is a 3913LS. It has a single locking lug. I don't know if that and whatever internal lock-up is stout enough to handle this BPLE +P load.
Has anyone had any significant experience with +P in the 3rd Gen 39 series pistols?Thanks
Click to expand...

I had been told that ISP signed a waiver for the use of the Fed 9BPLE+P. I do not have a copy of waiver, but the person is reliable and in a position in ISP to know this information. Be Safe,
 
ispcapt said:
Since my dept was the one responsible for the development of the BPLE I can say I've run quite a bit of it. When we issued the BPLE I and all the Troops ran thousands of rounds thru 2nd and 3rd gen S&W autos every year. Normal dept order was about 7 million rds a year. During the time we were issued the BPLE our issued guns were the 439, 469, 5904 and 6904.
After the BPLE we went to the W-W 115 +P+. Not a lot of difference between the 2. Not long after going to the W-W rd one of our range officers was told by an officer in another agency that our 5904s would not stand up to the W-W +P+ rd. Our range officer took that as a challenge. He documented every rd fired thru his 5904 and he only fired the W-W +P+. At around 50,000 rds he noticed the accuracy was starting to worsen. His barrel was getting shot out so he replaced. He did replace the springs are regular interval but I don't recall at what round count he replaced springs. When he retired he had documented 80,000 rds thru his issued 5904. He bought that gun when he retired and when I saw him a couple of months ago he was still shooting it. He retired about 20 years ago and has been shooting that same gun since retirement.
This is not saying your 3913 or any other alloy S&W will go 80,000+ rds. His gun might have just been a particularly good one. It was his issued gun so he might have just gotten the luck of the draw when his was issued. But at least 1 gun I know of that has a documented round count and is still running.
Personally I ran many thousands of rds of BPLE thru my 459 when I was one SWAT. I ran on average at least 50 rds a week thru it of the BPLE for several years. I still have the 459 and it's a great shooter. Other than blue wear it doesn't show any peening or indications of high pressure wear.
Click to expand...

There you go folks, real data and not arm chair commando speculation. :)
 
These days, with modern bullet designs, +P and +P+ is no longer required for reliable expansion. Since you have been gifted a case of Federal 9BLE ammo, I would not pitch it into the trash heap. I would use it without hesitation in a steel or stainless steel S&W pistol and in the M&P line. I would use it sparingly in S&W pistols with aluminum receivers. That means using standard pressure ammo for the bulk of practice, then 3 or 4 full magazines of the 9BLE for sight in and familiarization. Change that recoil spring frequently, like every 2500 rounds. Recoil springs are cheap, new receivers are now priceless.
 
It seems there is some confusion in the posts above :).

Federal 9BPLE is rated + P, not + P +. Published reports suggest it runs right at the upper limit of approved + P pressures, or 38,500 psi, compared to the regular standard of 35,000 psi. The post of the generic Pistol manual from the factory states no "+ P +", because that translates to "the sky's the limit".

That said, standds has the correct answer just above - occasional use for function and zero.
 
Interesting, I did a search for "Federal 9BPLE +P" and most if not all of the links found said +P+. Not that it means anything.

Just found this also.



Rosewood
 

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Says 115 grain at 1300 FPS. Seems like Georgia Arms also has a Speer gold dot they load that is 1300 FPS with a 115 grain and their case is head stamped GA +P+ on it. I guess they loaded it to compete with the Federal.

Rosewood
 
Federal 9BPLE is +P+ ammo, but maybe not as +P+ as some ammo.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9iiaXoRaRY[/ame]
 
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There is an intermediate version at +P said to have been originally made for a Canadian agency.
I have been carrying the plain vanilla 9BP for a long time. There are hotter rounds, there are higher tech bullets, but I know this one feeds, fires, and functions in MY guns. Accurate, too.
 
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It has been a while since I have seen a post from Mr. Watson. I haven't been living in a cave and become reclusive just yet.

It is good to see you again.

salty.
 
Illinois State Police Tactical Response teams fired a lot of +P and +P+ ammo in their 439’s and 5904/6904 pistols. When I was in District 15 the range officer/armorer was a certified armorer on S&W revolvers from when ISP issued revolvers to plain clothes investigators. He said he had a lot more work keeping a few K frame revolvers working compared to all of uniforms 39’s/439 pistols.

There were very few S&W alloy frames lost from wear by ISP. The switch from 9 MM to 40 S&W was partially for budgetary reasons. ISP wanted to train/qualify with comparable ammo to duty so we shot a lot of +P and +P+ 9 MM. when we transitioned to Glock 22/23 we shot a lot of standard pressure 180 FMJ and not near as much duty ammo in training. Our duty ammo was standard Pressure 180 grain JHP either by W-W or Federal before I retired. CMS got involved in ammo procurement which really hindered the Department acquiring ammunition. The Department could procure 40 cheaper than W-W 115 grain +P+.
 
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