S&W 59s and S&W 100 grain 9mm ammo

imarangemaster · Jan 14, 2021

I saw my first S&W Model 59 in 1975 at the Police academy. The Salinas PD Officers (about 10 of them) were in our class, and they all had been issued them. Their issue ammo, if I remember correctly was also Smith and Wesson. It was a 100 grain hollow point with a somewhat rounded profile and a wide, but shallow hollow point. They said it was engineered specifically for Model 39s and 59s.

When I got my first 59 in the late 70s, I tired to find the S&W 100 grain, but never saw it for sale. Maybe it was LE only. The closest I could come was Speer Lawman 100 JHP. It was a truncated cone shape with a deep hollow point. I actually still have a few rounds of it kicking around. It was good reliable ammo in my 59, and was pretty snappy at about 1300 FPS.

Anyone have any experience (or even remember) the 100 JHP grain S&W ammo? IIRC, the also had an even faster 90 grain JSP round.

banger · Jan 14, 2021

Back in the early 70's until the early 80's, ammunition development was moving very fast.

Personally, I used a fair amount of Winchester 100 grain J.H.P.'s.

The "new" company of Super Vel ran bullets as light as 90 grains.

Remington ran with 95 SJHP in .38 Special.

There were no heavy weight 9mm rounds.(147 gr.).

Outside of Winchesters then new Silvertip Hollow Point and Federals 9mm 115 grain BPLE JHP. virtually non of those bullets survived into the modern age.

imarangemaster · Jan 14, 2021

Yes, in some cases it is a shame. The Speer Lawman 100 grain JHP was zippy and worked well on the street. It came in a yellow hinged plastic box (still used for Speer projectiles) with a 50 hole tray.

Another example was the venerable 110 grain +P+ Treasury .38 load, It was a great short barrel load with a good track record. Not sure which of the current crop of 38s that duplicates it. I did pick up some of the new, redesigned 2020 vintage 110 grain. WW Silvertip for my wife's snubby. It has a wide and deep hollow point with pre-fail cuts. Standard velocity and not +P, but according to recent tests it opens up pretty well, despite that.

As for 9BPLE, that is my first choice in my 6906. Myt Glock 19, however, really likes the Speer Gold Dot 124 +P.

ispcapt · Jan 15, 2021

In the late 1970s we were issued the Federal 95 gr JSP. I ran it over the screen one time and got a consistent 1400 fps out of my 39. The shooting reports I've read indicated that it performed pretty well as long as it didn't have to go thru too tough of a barrier. Altho 1 report I remember a Troop was on the ground next to the car door after being shot at by the driver. He fired several rounds thru the door. 1 rd penetrated thru the door and struck the driver in the side of the chest ending the fight. 1 rd hit the window motor and stopped and another rd hit the arm mechanism that runs the window up and down. Both the mechanism and motor would have been pretty tough on any handgun rd at the time. On angled windshields they tended to deflect more than heavier bullets which is to be expected.
The first picture shows the 95 gr in the upper left corner. In the lower left corner is a S&W load but I don't recall bullet weight.

Aircrewman · Jan 16, 2021

I don't remember the 100 grain S&W load. I vaguely remember the Federal load. I definately remember the 100 grain Winchester soft point as I used this load in my off duty Model 39 when L.A.S.O. allowed the Model 39 for off duty use only c. 1975/76. It was the most accurate load I fired in my Model 39n load ever. In fact, I came as close to qualifying Distinguished Expert with this gun/load than I did with my issue Model 15 which I easily shot Expert and near DX most of the time. Could never get three DX scores in a row.....!

In any case, I thought that ISP was issuing the Winchester load, which is why I bought it for my M-39. But it looks like I was mistaken....It was a good load and was as reliable as anything.

ispcapt · Jan 16, 2021

Aircrewman said:
In any case, I thought that ISP was issuing the Winchester load, which is why I bought it for my M-39. But it looks like I was mistaken....It was a good load and was as reliable as anything.

I believe you are correct. Good news - your memory is not fading.

My boss had a display board in his office with the loads he was issued during his time with the ISP with tags showing the years issued. I do remember he had a W-W semi-jacketed round nose soft point on that board. I can't remember the bullet weight or the date he had on the tag for it tho. PJO1425 would be the guy to ask. My memory isn't all that good at times.

PJO1425 · Jan 17, 2021

ispcapt said:
I believe you are correct. Good news - your memory is not fading.
My boss had a display board in his office with the loads he was issued during his time with the ISP with tags showing the years issued. I do remember he had a W-W semi-jacketed round nose soft point on that board. I can't remember the bullet weight or the date he had on the tag for it tho. PJO1425 would be the guy to ask. My memory isn't all that good at times.

I saved at least one 9mm round from each of the 8 9mm rounds that we were issued, 1968-93. This covers the S&W Models 39, 439 and 5904. Sometime today, I will dig them out (and their boxes) and post what info that I have on them.

Aircrewman · Jan 17, 2021

Thank you for that! I didn't want to contradict you ISP Troopers who were the users of the issued Model 39 and ammunition. But I was certain that I had read somewhere that ISP was issuing the Winchester 100 SP at one time. Which is why I bought it (because we had to buy our ammo for the "off duty" M-39 as the County wasn't going to issue ammo for a sidearm that wasn't issued). I eagerly await confirmation! Thanks again!

ispcapt · Jan 17, 2021

PJO1425 said:
I saved at least one 9mm round from each of the 8 9mm rounds that we were issued, 1968-93. This covers the S&W Models 39, 439 and 5904. Sometime today, I will dig them out (and their boxes) and post what info that I have on them.

The former D-20 cmdr had the nice shadow box. You can probably figure who that was. IIRC how he had it displayed was his 39 in the center and then the various rounds spaced under the 39. I don't remember how many rds were displayed. Looked nice. We had talked about each rd he had on displayed. Some weren't issued for very long but I can't recall which was what tho.

PJO1425 · Jan 17, 2021

I just spent an hour typing up info on the 8 different 9mm cartridges that the IL state police issued, 1968-93, only to find out that I lost internet service mid-post. I'll try again tomorrow.

JohnHL · Jan 17, 2021

PJO1425 said:
I just spent an hour typing up info on the 8 different 9mm cartridges that the IL state police issued, 1968-93, only to find out that I lost internet service mid-post. I'll try again tomorrow.

That's gotta be frustrating.

But thanks for the effort and I look forward to the new post!

John

PJO1425 · Jan 18, 2021

So let's try this again. The following is info on IL state police issue 9MM ammo, 1968-93. Info is from ammo boxes that I saved & numbered (1 through 8).
In some cases, the approximate year is included.

#1 1968-ish. Winchester 100 grain FMC (full metal case). Nickel plated cases, round nose.

#2 Winchester 115 grain FMC, nickel case, nose is a bit more pointed than #1. 1972-ish.

#3 No box available. Head stamp =W-W 9 mm LUGER. Brass case, copper nose with slits, round lead tip.

#4 Federal 95 grain JSP (jacketed soft point). Triangular copper nose, with a flat lead tip. 1980-ish.

#5 The infamous Silvertip. Winchester 115 grain hollow point. Early 1980s.

#6 Winchester 100 grain Power Point (S.P.) S.P. "may" stand for state police. Brass case, triangular nose with slits, flat lead nose.

#7 There's some confusion (on my part) about #7. The round I thought was #7 has a head stamp of R-P (Remington) 9 mm LUGER. It has a brass case and a copper hollow point nose.
But the box that I actually wrote #7 on is a Federal box, 115 grain JHP. I couldn't find any of these cartridges, only the box. Mid-late 1980s. There are other ISP ammo posts on this forum, maybe someone can clear up this confusion.

#8 Winchester 115 grain +P+ JHP . Late 1980s, I know that we used this in the S&W 5904, I'm unsure if it was also used in the S&W 439.

Unfortunately, I'm not tech savvy enough to post photos.

Doug M. · Jan 18, 2021

My recollection of what I was told about the 439 and the +P+ 115 JHP is that ISP (range/armorer staff) did a lot of work on what would become the 4 digit/3rd generation pistol in part due to the volume of shooting done with that round. That memory along $3 and tax will get you a cup of coffee at a decent stand.

ispcapt · Jan 18, 2021

Doug M. said:
My recollection of what I was told about the 439 and the +P+ 115 JHP is that ISP (range/armorer staff) did a lot of work on what would become the 4 digit/3rd generation pistol in part due to the volume of shooting done with that round. That memory along $3 and tax will get you a cup of coffee at a decent stand.

You're good for your $3 coffee.
Ever since 1967 when the ISP adopted the 39 there was a close working relationship between the ISP and S&W. There was a S&W rep at the range so much that initially I thought he was an ISP employee. They were always playing how to improve stuff. We had a good range crew back then. Guys who knew guns and definitely knew how to shoot.
The S&W rep also use to hangout at our Collinsville HQ which had an indoor range. When he'd show up he'd come with a box of stuff S&W was working on. We'd spend the day playing with his new toys.
Our range guys at the main ISP range in Pawnee also spent a lot of time with W-W plant which is located in E. Alton, IL at their Olin facility. Olin is about a 1 hour drive from the main range. It was easy to make a run down there, play with whatever they were developing.
I tagged along a few trips down there myself. Never miss a chance to shoot someone else's ammo.

imarangemaster · Jan 18, 2021

Bellevue Washington PD was the first Washington agency to cary Smith and Wesson autos starting about 1979. When I got there in early 1981, we issued Model 59s. In 1982, I became one of the Rangemasters and Firearms instructors.

We also frequently had an S&W LE rep there. He brought toys, different guns, ammo, and accessories. (He still had a M76 SMG he would bring) He brought us a pre-production 469 to play with (that's when I fell in love with Mini-9 S&Ws) We also issued Smith and Wesson Model 3000 shotguns (870 clones).

I helped them work out some bugs like overpressure shooting slugs with a certain model. I discovered that their bore was undersize close to full choke the whole length on the models we had. That caused the over pressure problem with only standard slugs, but not the sabot slugs. He looked good to his bosses, I got a nice letter of thanks and an S&W hat for my efforts. He also got me a great deal on my first 469 when they were finally released.

imarangemaster · Jan 21, 2021

This is too funny! I was rooting around in a box of old leather gear and assorted stuff from my career that has been stored for years, looking to see if I still have a Model 59 duty holster and mag pouch. I found a Model 59 magazine's worth (14 rounds) of CCI Lawman 100 grain truncated cone hollow points I used to use as duty ammo in the late 70s in the bottom of the box. No 59 holster, though...

VASCAR2 · Jan 22, 2021

imarangemaster said:
This is too funny! I was rooting around in a box of old leather gear and assorted stuff from my career that has been stored for years, looking to see if I still have a Model 59 duty holster and mag pouch. I found a Model 59 magazine's worth (14 rounds) of CCI Lawman 100 grain truncated cone hollow points I used to use as duty ammo in the late 70s in the bottom of the box. No 59 holster, though...

That is quite a find, I’d really like to see pictures of the ammo.

imarangemaster · Jan 22, 2021

Here you go: Speer Lawman 100 grain 9mm, circa 1980!

ElectroMotive · Jan 23, 2021

I've got two boxes of the aforementioned 95gr+P Remington .38spec ammo, and I plan on shooting it up tomorrow. I want the +P brass

stansdds · Jan 23, 2021

ElectroMotive said:
I've got two boxes of the aforementioned 95gr+P Remington .38spec ammo, and I plan on shooting it up tomorrow. I want the +P brass

You know you can buy 9x19mm +P and 38 Special +P brass from Starline, don't you? With the exception of 38 Special WC brass, there is no difference between standard and +P brass other than the case head marking.

S&W 59s and S&W 100 grain 9mm ammo

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