Problem with my 4006, Help!!

Nitrous SSC

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This is officially the first "issue" I've ever had with any of my 3rd gens...

While at a steel plate shoot yesterday my 4006 stoped holding the hammer back after each shot. Every trigger pull was a double action for about 8 rounds. (basicly like a revolver) it would eject the brass and load a new one fine. I did have a mag change in the middle of it so I'm not quite sure if its a magazine issue or what...

Also one of the magazines I have for the gun will only hold 10 rounds is stead of the 11' thats marked. Why is this? I tried taking it apart and putting it back together but nothing. It was NOT used yesterday.

The only thing I can think of is that I used a diagram I found on the net to break the gun 100% down for a very detailed cleaning/greaseing. I used Tetra Gun Grease on some of the internals. Could that of been the problem? It shot AWESOME yesterday other than that issue though. I went through about 300 rounds.

Oh and yes, they were reloads from the guys that used to run HSM.
 
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This is officially the first "issue" I've ever had with any of my 3rd gens...

While at a steel plate shoot yesterday my 4006 stoped holding the hammer back after each shot. Every trigger pull was a double action for about 8 rounds. (basicly like a revolver) it would eject the brass and load a new one fine. I did have a mag change in the middle of it so I'm not quite sure if its a magazine issue or what...

Also one of the magazines I have for the gun will only hold 10 rounds is stead of the 11' thats marked. Why is this? I tried taking it apart and putting it back together but nothing. It was NOT used yesterday.

The only thing I can think of is that I used a diagram I found on the net to break the gun 100% down for a very detailed cleaning/greaseing. I used Tetra Gun Grease on some of the internals. Could that of been the problem? It shot AWESOME yesterday other than that issue though. I went through about 300 rounds.

Oh and yes, they were reloads from the guys that used to run HSM.
 
Maybe the notch on the hammer for full cock broke off. But I think when it would slip it would also fire.
 
I'm also interested in this topic as I recently had a similar problem with my 4006.
I had pulled the slide, barrel and spring down for cleaning, like many times before, and when it was reassembled it would not cock when racking the slide.
I again took down the same components and when reassembled, it worked fine. I guess I didn't replace something quite right the first time but, this was a new occurance for me.
 
Check the sear/hammer engagement surfaces and check the sear spring - make sure that it has proper tension and is correctly installed (the little retaining 'bump' relative to the sear spring pin) and positioned under the lower sear extension. It might even have broken.

Another (remote) possibility is that the sear release lever could have been incorrectly installed and/or bent - this could cause the slide to activate the sear release on its way into battery.
 
But if it was the 2nd case wouldn't it of turned the gun full auto if It was dropping the hammer as the slide went forward with the new round in place?

MWB. I wish I understood the terminology better. Is there ANYWAY you can circle what I need to check on a breakdown diagram?

Yes I'm a "pictures" person. LOL

Thank you for your help. Its greatly appricated.
 
The tripping of the sear release would not result in full auto if the firing pin safety was 'on' because the drawbar had been lowered by the disconnector. The hammer following the slide instead of falling directly onto the firing pin (as it normally does) might lack sufficient energy to indent a primer.

Send me a diagram (via e-mail) that you can see clearly and I will reply with the earlier mentioned parts indicated.
 
It sounds like a sear release lever issue. Perhaps the safety/decocker is moving down during recoil just enough to engage the sear release lever as the slide runs to battery but not enough to stay down once in battery. If you lock the slide to the rear, is the safety mushy? Does it feel like the safety body plunger spirng is weak?

When I first shot my 1995 4006 the safety would engage during recoil and the hammer would follow the slide forward. After I eliminated my thumb as the culprit, I completely disassembled and inspected the pistol. I discovered that the safety body plunger spring was a bit weak, but the real culprit was that the groove cut into the slide for the safety body plunger to "snap" into was not deep enough (when compared to the groove in the slide on my 1992 4006).

The cure was a new fresh safety body plunger spring and very carefully (with proper tools) deepening the groove in the slide. Now the safety/decocker operates very positively, like my 1992 4006 and other 3rd generation pistols. It has functioned perfectly for the past 400 rounds.

I think this issue comes up with .40 S&W pistols because of the snappy recoil. It is very important that the safety engage positively with no mushy feel. FWIW
 
The gun should be checked by someone who is trained and understands S&W pistols.

I'll offer some comments about what you've posted in the thread, for the purpose of conversation, but the gun should still be checked by someone trained to repair S&W pistols.

Was the hammer "decocking" during firing? In other words, were the safety/decocking levers in the DOWN/ON SAFE position after each shot? Did you have to lift the safety lever after each shot was fired in order to fire the next round?

If so, it's possible that the wrong spring was installed in the decocker body assembly when you reassembled the gun. This is a mistake that armorers are warned about because it can be easy to switch the ambi lever spring for the decocker body spring.

If switched, the lighter tension ambi lever spring doesn't have the strength to keep the assembly from rotating during live-fire when the slide is cycling. Armorers are repeatedly warned not to mistakenly switch the springs, but it sometimes happens. I've watched new armorers do it during classes. I've even seen an armorer do it at the bench when working on a duty gun.

For that matter, one time I even found a gun which had the wrong plunger in the decocker body, an ambi lever plunger, which caused the decocking effort to be nasty, hard and gritty. Fortunately, the wrong plunger had not yet damaged the inside surface of the slide where the decocking body plunger was intended to ride smoothly along the surface and I installed the correct plunger.

I knew of an agency where a new armorer mistakenly switched the decocking body & ambi lever plunger springs one time. Fortunately, the resulting single-shot-remains-on-safe condition was discovered on the range ... although the guns had been carried on-duty for a while before it was discovered.
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The light ambi lever spring is painted a light blue (when still new and clean) and can easily be compressed between fingertips ... as long as you don't let it slip and fly away to disappear in the carpet or behind the dark recesses of the workbench.
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The heavier decocker body spring is unpainted and cannot be easily compressed between the fingers. (This is how the armorer who asked for my help discovered the mistake. He was having a hard time trying to compress the decocker body spring deeply enough in the slide's ambi lever spring hole to slip the lever back on over it. He asked for my help and I saw he had the wrong spring.)

FYI ... There was a change made to the ambi lever plunger (described in narrative of manual excerpt), which also required a change in the ambi levers (to accept the larger plunger head).

Here's a couple of thumbnails of info from an armorer manual describing the different parts being discussed.



If the wrong plunger spring is not in the decocker body ...

The usual probable causes of the hammer following the slide forward can be a damaged sear, sear spring or single action cocking notch(es) on the hammer. These things may result in double taps or bursts.

I'd also check to see if the sear had been installed so that the bottom was on the wrong side of the sear spring. It should be in front of the sear spring, not behind it (front & rear/behind relative to the front and rear of the gun's normal orientation). The armorer manual states it in another way, that the sear should be behind the sear spring when viewing from the rear of the frame. (Describing it from the viewer perspective, when the viewer is located to the rear of the frame, has always seemed a bit less precise to me than describing it from the perspective of the normal orientation of the gun itself, front and back, but that's just me and I don't write the manual.
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)

However you describe it, the top of the sear spring pushes forward against the bottom of the sear, which tensions the pivoting sear rearward at the top, which is what keeps the the sear nose under the hammer's single action cocking notches to hold the hammer in single action.

You greased the internals?

FWIW, the 'internals' of a S&W traditional double action pistol are not recommended lubrication points.

Armorers are told that as the gun is reassembled the parts may be wiped with a lightly oiled patch. A drop of oil (or grease, if preferred) should be applied to the barrel hood (front), the barrel muzzle (around the outside circumference of the barrel), both sides of the hammer and both left & right side rails. The recoil guide rod and recoil spring can also be wiped with a lightly oiled patch. (Different environmental conditions and operational needs may require some modified maintenance procedures and S&W may make recommendations as appropriate.)

There are things that can be done wrong when reassembling a S&W pistol.

Just my thoughts.

If this was reported to be happening with one of the guns belonging to my agency I'd certainly want to examine it to figure out what was occurring, and preferably talk to the person who experienced the problem when it happened. Weird things can happen.
 
The safety did not move/rotate durring this hicup.

Is there any good literature out there I could read?

Also the upper slide assembly was not "broke down" other than barrel/spring/rod removal. I didn't want to mess with that. The sear is installed with the contact against the spring being on the front side (towards the mag well)

Thank you for your detailed posts.

I did lightly grease some of the internal parts were I could see wear. I will clean it all out and re-do it as the way you suggest.
 
So it's not decocking, but the hammer is not held cocked in single action during firing?

If the hammer is following the slide forward there's something not allowing the sear nose to reach back to catch and hold the hammer at full cock (catching hammer's single action cocking notches) ... Or else the hammer's SA cocking notches are not holding on the sear.

Are the sear release lever and firing pin safety lever in the right orientation in the frame? The f/p safety lever on the right and the smaller sear release lever on the left?

Is the lever spring in the frame hole under the f/p safety lever & the sear release lever?

Is the sear spring curled slightly to the rear at the top? Split or cracked?

Sear nose broken? Broken SA cocking notch on hammer?

If the sear, sear spring or hammer are damaged the correction is to replace the damaged/worn part(s).

Sorry. Firearm problems can't be diagnosed and resolved online. This is why the gun needs to be examined and the problem(s) not guessed at ...

Weird things do sometimes happen ... and they can sometimes involve something which happened during a moment's inattention while reassembling a gun.

If you were located near me I'd offer to look at it as a courtesy.

Got a gunsmith near you who is familiar with S&W TDA pistols?
 
I've got to ask ... please don't be offended ... but is the sear installed so the curved nose is pointing to the rear, toward the hammer? Is the small rounded bevel at the bottom of the sear facing the top/front of the sear spring?

I've actually seen someone who had managed to get a S&W pistol completely reassembled once with the sear installed backwards. I think he asked for my help when he couldn't get it to cock.

Probably not involved in your case, since your original post made it sound as though the condition started occurring after the gun had already been functioning normally ... but I thought I'd ask.
 
No offence taken. Every Newbie screws something up the first time...

I'm gona take it apart again and post some pics.

So it's not decocking, but the hammer is not held cocked in single action during firing?

That's exactly whats happened.
 
Nitrous SSC,

You have taken the frame apart? Just out of curiousity, have you checked the trigger drawbar for breaks?
 
One of my 4006's did this when I repaired damaged sear notch on the hammer. This changes the geometry of the hammer, changing the position of the sear notches. I can't remember what the specifics cause it to follow the slide.

It was damaged when I bought the gun, I called S&W to see if they would take care of it and they wouldn't. Not a good testimonial for MIM or S&W customer service. I replaced the hammer and it is fine.

Fastbolt was helpful to me on my problem. Thanks again!
 
Fastbolt. Here are pictures of it. This is before I re-cleaned it and removed the internal grease and oiled as you instructed.

gun1.jpg

gun2.jpg

gun3.jpg

gun4.jpg

gun5.jpg
 
your disconnector seems low or short.

I dont have one in front of me to compare.

EDIT
Disregard my comment. I have some high school CJ class guns that I am cleaning for them. 3913's and 5903's and the disconnector height is the same. hard to believe just by sight that such a short movement of the disconnector takes the action out of the game.

good luck
 
Nitrous,

did you get your piece fixed?????

what was the problem if its fixed????

inquiring mind wants to know.
 

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