How about a 5 shot revolver in 41 special in a smaller frame.

Nice concept but it would be a handload only proposition so I doubt the 'mothership' would even give it a passing thought! 😢

41 Magnum is a niche caliber with low sales.

41 SPL is relegated almostsolely to handloaders and no potential for sales/profit.

I've been a fan of the .41 mag. since 1971.
Probably half of my .41 mag loads would be considered ".41 Special's" as I'm loading 220 gr. SWC's at +/-900 fps. For "woods walking" and general practice or plinking, they're accurate, pleasant to shoot, and rarely is a 2nd shot required for "sumpthin that really need'd shoot'in."
My 657's and Ruger Blackhawks like them very much.
My requirements for full bore jacketed loads are usually filled by a dozen or so each year.
So, as previously noted, .41 Special would be a niche cartridge and most .41 mag shooters and reloaders anyway - IMO.

WYT-P
Skyhunter

It's still a " wild cat " caliber and I haven't seen any load data from the powder co's . So making revolvers chambered in it by the manufacturers would be very very risky , from a sales stand point and a liability stand point . I'm a 41 guy myself . I load it up and I load it down . I found matching 38-40 performance level in my revolver was extremely rewarding and fun as the bullet diameter of the 38-40 is almost the same as the 41 magnum . The 38-40 used a 180 gr cast bullet and the 180 gr works well in the 41 . If you want reduced 41 magnum loads , remember Elmer Keiths target load , (he called it his gallery load ) was 4.5 grs of Bullseye powder using his 220 gr cast bullet . Any 210-215 gr cast bullet using that Bullseye load will give you a real nice 41 special load using magnum cases in your 6 shooter that is very accurate and you can shoot all day . Regards Paul

Bill: You've had two very worthy responses regarding reduced loads, but no one has addressed "smaller frame". Taurus makes/made a Model 415, which is a reduced size, 5-shot, 41 Mag. I had one years ago, but the lighter gun weight was no fun to shoot with even reduced velocity hand-loads. I had to use a reduced bullet weight Lyman mould I found (#410639) which throws a 170 gr'er. So I went back to my old standby heavier revolvers (i.e. Ruger 3-Screw BH & a Smith 657). Going out this morning, as a matter of fact, to shoot both of them.
Regards, Hank M.

I have often pondered this same thing. I have always wanted to trim off 1/8" (0.125") on my Magnum cases and make them true "Special" cases. (The difference between the .44Mag and Special cases)

By my calculations... a .41 Mag holds 34.0gr of H²O and the shortened case would hold 30.05gr of H²O. I would think that the lesser case capacity would have much better flash/ignition, than in the longer case and you could even reduce the powder charge significantly less and still be safe, with much better results. More, "Apples/Apples" than "Apples/Oranges".

Thoughts...?

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I'm too windy for 30 chrctrs!

A six shot .41 Special is doable in a L frame. As far as ammo goes, if s&w will hold the gun, some ammo company will make ammo. Starline already makes brass. Ruger makes a GP100 in 10mm. You can shoot .40 S&W in it as well. Pretty much the ballistic equivalent of the .41 Special.

Wow... I was not aware of this! I just went to the Starline site and noticed they make .500 Special brass, as well. Now this is something to ponder!

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I'm too windy for 30 chrctrs!

The .41 Special has flickered off and on since the 1920s. The .41 Magnum was introduced after a lot of lobbying by the gun writers and experts and, as noted, has remained strictly a niche cartridge. I have been reloading .41 Magnum since 1980, my target/service load of a 210SWC over 7.5 grains of Unique performs nicely in my M-57, no problems reloading it and I have never felt the absence of a shorter case. Probably be like the 9MM revolvers, everybody will say "Why don't they make?"-and then no one will buy them.
Glock introduced their 45 GAP round-a cut down 45ACP, it has been accepted by some police departments but has found little acceptance with the civilian market.

That’s why I posted this starline offers the 41 special brass yet there’s no designated revolver for it. Like having a horse with no cart it can pull. I don’t like shooting shorter special cases in magnum chambers.

Shame, shame on the revolver manufacturers for not seeing this. Ammo with no revolver,

Nothing would stop you from firing your 41 Special in a 41 Magnum chamber

The Taurus 415 model was available in several barrel lengths and different construction materials.

I have a 2 1/2" 415 and a 2 1/2" 415T

These were way ahead of their time. The Concealed Carry craze had not yet hit us. Realize these came out 20 some years ago

The all stainless 415 weighed in at 29 ounces while it's Total Titanium brother tipped the scales at 19 ounces.

BigBill, I have no idea what part of North America you reside in, but if it is near Central Florida you are welcome to meet me at the range and shoot either of these L-frame sized 5 shooters.

FYI, Taurus offered these 5 shooters in 44 Special, 44 Magnum, 45 ACP and 45 LC. There even was a 7 shot 357 built on the same frames

The only other one that I own is a Shadow Gray Total Titanium 45 LC. It really likes the Barnes total copper hollowpoints

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"Acta non verba"

It is really too bad Taurus discontinued their Tracker line...they are just the right size for "Specials"...

I am fortunate enough to have four... 4" .41 stainless, 4" .41 titanium, 6" .41 titanium and a 4" stainless .45 ACP...all are 5 shooters with adjustable sights. A 6" titanium just sold the other day on GunBroker for $900.00. Not many were imported as they were only made a year before they were discontinued.

The .41s make the perfect Specials because besides being sized right the cylinder is also shorter than most others except the Freedom Arms 97...so Special brass ejects very easily.

As to .41 Special ammo...Reed's Ammo has three or four different loads. There is one other company who has ammo also but can't recall who right now.

Bob

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The whole purpose of the .41Special is that it can be chambered in guns smaller than a N frame and hold 6 rounds. Years ago, some Pythons were rechambered to .41 mag. Probably not a wise move. Colt didn’t approve. If a 41Special had existed it might have been a good fit

I talked to Dave Clements about modifying a S&W 686 to 41 special . At that time he would do it . A few months later he quit modifying S&W's . But he did say and recommended converting the Ruger GP-100 . He felt it would last much longer . It would be a " 6 shooter " . Getting the barrel re-sized was what was going to take up to a yr to get done . Regards Paul

As I mentioned previously, the GP-100 is available in 10mm/40s&w. The 41 Special is generally reported as a 210 gr bullet launched at 900 +\- FPS. The 10/40 usually has a slightly lighter bullet at a little faster to maybe a lot faster. I think 10mm can be loaded up to 200gr. Anyway, the hand loader can easily duplicate the 41 Special specification. Very easily, since no actual specifications exist. And, this gun actually exists.

My .41spl is a 686 by Clements..................

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

It dawned on my one day that the " 41 special " would be pretty much mimicking the ballistics of the another cartridge from " yesteryear " the 38-40 . Almost the identical bullet diameter and approximately the same velocity . Bullet weight could vary , depending on your personal like . I have a Ruger NMBH in 41 mag , 4 3/4" barrel that has had extensive professional work done on it . I decided this would be my 38-40 / 41 special gun . In the past I had often thought of getting a revolver in 38-40 . But when I realized I had the best of both worlds with my Ruger including shooting 41 magnums in it , I dropped any ideas of getting another revolver . Regards Paul

No manufacturer will chamber for a cartridge with no SAMMI specifications, and I doubt any ammunition manufacturer believes this will sell well enough to justify the cost of development given the popularity of the .41 Magnum is in barely-hanging-on mode. It likely would just cannibalize .41 Magnum ammo sales.

I wrote Charter Arms a couple of times nagging them about a .41 Special, and they responded that they'd look into it. But they brought out a .41 Magnum instead.

The 10mm is the way to go, then you can load some 10mm Auto Rim RMS using..... .41 Magnum cases! (see Ammoguide.com)

I like the idea of the 41 spl, so much so that I got 500 Starline cases and started using it as a practice round in my favorite 657 no dash - which is my current top running whitetail rig. My current load is 9.5 grains of Accurate #5 under a 210 truncated cone lead bullet from Penn Bullets. Just got a Chronograph over Christmas that has not been figured out yet, but when I do I will chrono this load.

The 41 spl is to the 41 mag, what the 44spl is to the 44 mag.

You can run your hunting rig in local steel matches, or in local indoor ranges, that lots of times don't allow MAGNUMs and get valuable practice for hunting.

If the MD gives you grief, just show them the properly stamped brass that clearly says .41 spl !!

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DAO Hunter, SWCA #2955

Maybe between being on the sick, lazy and lame list due to my bad back and the COVID19 lockdown I will get my Ruger Old Model Single-Six Conversion out of the safe, reload some ammo and finally go shoot it.

The 41 Special is the which came first “what came first, the chicken or the egg” project. Gun companies will not make a gun that commercial ammunition isn’t available for and ammunition companies will not make ammunition until there are guns for it. Thing is both guns and ammo will not be difficult to make.

I would buy one .

When I wanted a snub nosed 5 shot 45 acp revolver ... S&W didn't make one . I had to jump ship and buy a Taurus 455 , 2 inch , 5 shot , 45 acp big bore snub that could reload with full moon clips .
I would buy a 41 Special if S&W or Taurus makes them .
I bought the 455 Taurus in 2004 and it's the sweetest shooting 45 acp I own ... my Gold Cup can't shoot tighter groups ... it's jealous .

If someone would make a 41 special ... I'm all in !
My avatar is a model 58 S&W and hard to conceal .
Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

At risk of creating thread drift, I'd happily buy a 6-shot L-frame 41 special. I'd also buy a Ruger 77/41 carbine if they'd make one.

I'll tweak this just a bit: why not just chamber the 2.75" Model 69 to .41mag and shoot .41spl to your hearts content?

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"You're messin' up my Zen"

Y’all miss the whole point of the .41 Special. A L frame size gun can be chambered for six rounds of .41 Spec. Not 5. The L frame cylinder can’t take the full bore .41 Mag in a 6 shot configuration, but the milder .41 Special it can handle all day. The Pythons used to be rechambered in .41 Mag. Apparently didn’t work out too well. Basically the same frame as the L frame. Had they been done in .41 Spec. the conversation would have likely been fine. A 210 grain bullet at 950-1000 FPS is nothing to sneeze at.

So noted, but I'll admit that a 2.75" Model 69 chambered in .41mag had me up most of the night thinking about it!

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"You're messin' up my Zen"

Speaking of thread drift;
How about a six shot L frame in 40S&W auto rimmed?
Ballistics would be about the same.

Where are you going to get the brass?

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

Same place that sells 41 Special.

Until then we'll just have to use moon clips.

There is at least one commercial (low volume) supplier of 0.41 Special. I have used it in the past (Pistol Ammunition - Reed's Ammunition & Research, LLC) and I use Starline 0.41 Special in a 6.5" Model 57. I was able to locate 0.41 special cases from a special run quite a few years ago, made for a S&W Forum member, then about two years ago, Starline started to sell them as a standard item. Dave_n

Good luck. Someone will have to talk Star-Line into making a run and pay for that run up front and the head stamp die that will still belong to Star-Line.........

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

Charter Pug in 41 mag, but would shoot 41 specials in a pinch. Less recoil than the magnum loading. Sound familiar. Can you say bulldog? Only a 5 shot though 😔

Until then We'll just have to use moon clips. ( I personally hate moon clips)

Not trying to hijack the thread but this part of the forum is kind of a "what if" to begin with. My apologies to the OP.
I guess my point was, the 41 Special exists, they just call it a 40 S&W. I think the ballistics would be inline with what the OP is looking for, in a readily available cartridge, and an existing gun (Charter arms Pitbull, others?).

I expect a L frame six shot wouldn't be difficult. It could have a shorter cylinder like the 45 acp revolvers. A redesign could include shortening the frame window making the entire pistol shorter and lighter.

When there were lots of 1917 revolvers on the market, the cartridge manufacturers answered with the 45 auto rimmed. If 40 S&W revolvers became popular maybe they would do it again with a 40 auto rimmed.
Do I expect any of this to happen? No. Just dreaming. Judging by the way the 40 cal revolver market didn't take off, I suspect there is little interest.

Again, my appoliges for the diversion. Out.

Yeah, a 686 6 shot .41spl................

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

A 10 mm or 40 cal requires moon clips? A 41 spec no moon clips?

I’m new to the 41 mag and like it, a special would be smaller in size revolver.

The market is over run with new calibers let’s redesign what we did years ago with modern technology.

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Plant garlic in the fall

No clips required. The whole point of the .41 Special is a 6 shot revolver on a L frame size gun. Ballistics similar to .40 S&W. Maybe a little hotter, but plenty of grunt at 900-950 FPS with a 210 gr bullet.

I would rather see an L frame in .401 Powermag

Nope ! I have spent too much time trying to make brass for a 401 Power Mag.

Either some kind of a rimed 10mm or a 41 spl. on a L frame or GP-100 would have my vote first.

Ballistically we had what the 41special in a L frame would have been. The 646. Complete with moon clips for fast loading. Nobody bought it.

Yes! A hotter true .40 caliber rimmed cartridge (like the .401 Powermag) is the best answer to this quandry. The problem with the .41 Magnum, and the wildcat .41 Special, is bullet diameter. It is too close to the .44 Magnum and .44 Special (.410 vs .429). This limits the .41 Magnum to an N frame sized revolver and limits the potential of a six shot .41 Special L frame. This is why the .41 Mag never really took off on the civilian market (or set L.E. sales records). If S&W had introduced a true six shot .40 Magnum on an L frame sized revolver in 1964, it would have gone over very well. With the right marketing, it could go over well today.

The 401 is one of the perpetual overlooked orchids of the revolver world. It would potentially allow six rounds of a very potent cartridge in a L frame/GP100/new Python with more steel between the chambers. Obviously, if the industry would get behind this concept, brass would be more readily available. Companies could also load defensive rounds (e.g. 200/210 grain bullet @ 1,000 fps) that would do anything the .41 Special could do. Throw in the other advantages, and it makes far more sense.

Midframed 41 Special 6 shot guns can be had. These jsut happen to be Rugers and a USFA. Oh, the first little Ruger does wear a S&W model 57 barrel.