10 m.m. Question, S&W compared to a CZ or EAA Witness-P ?

[bad_man_ one]

I have a few of 1006's and a couple 1076's, a 1066 and 1086.
I have the opportunity to pick up an EAA (European American Amory) Witness-P 10 m.m. w/4.50" barrel.
It's LNIB with all the paperwork, two 15 rd. mags and even the cleaning brushes.
It appears to be unfired and never holstered. It looks like a copy of a CZ.
Can anyone give me any information about it and if it's worth $300.00 OTD ?
Thanks,
BM1

 

[bad_man_ one]

I have a few of 1006's and a couple 1076's, a 1066 and 1086.
I have the opportunity to pick up an EAA (European American Amory) Witness-P 10 m.m. w/4.50" barrel.
It's LNIB with all the paperwork, two 15 rd. mags and even the cleaning brushes.
It appears to be unfired and never holstered. It looks like a copy of a CZ.
Can anyone give me any information about it and if it's worth $300.00 OTD ?
Thanks,
BM1

 

[Bullman]

I have heard good and bad about the Witenesses, I would say that $300.00 is a pretty safe investment in one.

 

[Mortech]

If its a metal frame one JUMP ON IT! , a poly frame one I'd pass on . I just didn't like the feel or the reliability issues I've heard about them . They both are worth the $300 easy .

 

[S&W247]

Don't have any experience with the Witness but do with some of their other products. I don't think they would know a quality product if you slapped them in the face with it. And even if they do know they are importing complete junk products , they have no qualms about it. They must be in good with the man upstairs for a law suit to have not put them out of business by now.

 

[Old Navy]

I have a Witness 10mm Wonder FS and a friend has a P Carry in 45ACP and it is amazing what kind of crap hand loads the gun will feed. It shoots as good or better then most polly guns and he says it more accurate then his Glock 45 ACP.

If I was to try a polly again it would be a Witness because of quality & price. I had a M&P 45ACP and didn't like it and got rid of the thing. The only down side these guns is EAA (importer) is very poor with after sales service or warranty.

I plan on trying to pick up a nice used 10mm Witness Wonder finish this coming year to go with my full size 10mm Wonder finish model.

PS: The steel 10mm is built heavier at contact point of rail & frame and barrel lock up thyen my S&W 1006, and most people think the S&W is buiilt like a tank. If the metal in the Tanfoglio is a good as S&W then it is for sure stronger.

Their target models are built lighter duty and will have frame problems if full power 10mm loads are used. Their Hunter model is a 6" barrel model SA that is also built like a tank and is a real hunting auto loader. Check it out at EAA website.

 

[Golddog]

CZ doesn't make a 10 mm.

 

[warrenag]

Bad man go to czforum.com it's all there and then some I have a cz75b it's a very accurate and comfortable to shoot But the trigger needs some help you will find Witness post's on the czforum all so

 

[gmchenry]

Originally posted by Golddog:
CZ doesn't make a 10 mm.

Sure they do. It's known as a Dan Wesson 1911.

http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=80

 

[Old Navy]

I think there were some 40's and maybe 38 Supers that had frame problems in the target models using hot loads.

I have never understood guys buying target guns and then shooting hot loads in them. I have a friend that does that, says he shoots better. He does run through the pistols, two S&W PC's 1911's, a Tanfoglio, and several Colt's that I can remember.

In my 10mm's I don't make a habbit of shooting hot hand loads that are hotter then the orignal Norma, and most is light target loads and or Rem factory loads. Hottest factory has been WW 175g STHP and one box of Corbon that I picked up dirt cheap on a clearance rack. The bad news there was they only had the one box, and probably 10 or 15 boxes of WW 380 that were $6
a box. I called a buddy about the 380's and he came down with check book and bought all of them.

I can, with Rem 185g TC's, connect bullet holes at the 21' line with the Tanfoglio, but that's my range limit for really close shooting with my old eye's. With my RIA 1911A1 5" I can do about the same thing, but the Tanfoglio probably when you get down to actual measuring probably tad more close with the grouping.

 

[Hot Toddy]

Hey Folks! My advice is avoid the EAA line at all costs. If CZ made the 97b in 10mm I'd be the first to buy. You simply cannot compare CZ to the Witness. My experience consists of 4 different 10mms ( 2 compacts, a Full size, and a Match target). The most horrible guns I have ever owned. The only ones I have ever lost money on.
When I had my FFL I sold 2 Witnesses and wound up buying them back because my customers were beyond disappointed. I'd rather take the loss than lose good cutomers and now friends.
Factory support is non exsistent, hateful, and useless. I wish they would spend some money and make/import functional guns instead of advertisements.
The 10mms I had jammed in everyway possible including some that my gunsmith, range officer, a couple of LE guys and I have never seen or heard of.
The most I ever was able to shoot at one time was 100 rds through the compact. 4 hours later I boxed it up and traded it off. And yes I warned the new owner of the problems. I didnt get but 1/4 of what I paid for it. Just wanted some relief.
Unless you enjoy stomach ulcers, stay away from EAA and their headaches.
Take care and God Bless...HT

 

[warrenag]

Just took a look at czforum.com clone club have not been for some time The folks that have them seem to love them If I wanted a 10mm for $300.I go for it It could the best gun you ever owned

 

[Old Navy]

Originally posted by warrenag:
Just took a look at czforum.com clone club have not been for some time The folks that have them seem to love them If I wanted a 10mm for $300.I go for it It could the best gun you ever owned

Mine (Witness 10mm) is my HD gun currently, but is being replaced by my new GP100 just due to no magazine spring worry and a hell of a buy on the Ruger.

PS: I have talked to about 5 or 6 Witness owers and all have raved about the gun and one is a LEO carrying a full sized Polly 10mm for duty gun and owns a Witness 10mm Hunter that I have drooled over and got to shoot one time. It was some of his hot hand loads that was according to him about 1650fps. Nothing like a 6" 10mm with 2x7 leopould(sp) scope, and some fine hand loads. Man at 25 yards standing no rest I did a 2" group, and that is what I do with my Ruger Mk III Target Competition with 2-7 scope standing shooting no rest.

 

[ShelbyV8]

I have 2 Witness 10mm. Couldn't find a Smith in my area. I have a full size Poly for HD and P-Carry for a truck gun. Both of them hold 16 rounds of 10mm and I have a M6 on the HD gun.

 

[cbpotel]

The Witness 10mm is a great gun, I liken it to the poor man's Bren 10. They are hell for stout. Very enjoyable to shoot. Two problems, the ejector throws brass to hell and gone. 10mm brass is scarce so I don't shoot it much until I can get the ejector modified. The other problem is the front sight is integral to the slide and it shoots low. The alternative there is to mill off the sight and install a dovetail and a new set of sights. Other than these two problems it is a great gun. I'm kinda looking for a smith to work on the gun.

I have two Witnesses, one in .40 and the other in 10mm. They are well built, robust and accurate(despite the 10mm's idiosyncracies).

If you can acquire it for a good price jump on it.

 

[warrenag]

CBPOTEL You need a stonger recoil spring and how low do you shoot You may need to change the rear sight that easyer change out the recoil spring be for you change the sights You never can tell one move at a time

 

[S&W247]

They may work good, but based off other products I've seen I would not shoot an EAA product with my left hand (I'm right handed) wearing a kevlar helmet and a flak jacket. I don't trust them that much. I know there aren't other options in that sytle and in that caliber, but I'd suck it up and spend the extra bucks to buy something I hope (obviously one never knows) is a lot safer.

 

[Old Navy]

Hey that's fine dude, leaves more of them for us who know a good gun when we see and handle them.

That said just don't go bashing the guns you know nothing about because they are not a S&W, Colt or some other brand you like. I have several S&W's and love them and trust my life with them, just as I would and do with my Ruger, Tanfoglio or RIA pistols.

My Tanfoglio is always in my cars trunk when traveling, just in case I might need serious stopping power & range over my CS45 that stays in my consoul. But when at home it is loaded and ready to defend my home & family. I seldom take my 1006 when traveling because it is more valuble and does not drive tac's like the Italian Stallion does with its target sights.

PS: Only handgun I ever witness blow up was a Colt 1911 that came apart from broken a part. And the one rifle was a friends new Browning automatic in 308 when he was target practicing at the range. Should seen the end of the barrel, you would never belive what casued that.

 

[S&W247]

I'm not bashing them because they are not a big name US-made gun, in fact I am not even bashing the Tangfolio guns. What I'm saying is from what I've seen first hand, the unscrupulous importer typically sales junk, knows it, and doesn't care. That's probably the reason their customer service is so poor is because they know if they fixed every problem they would be bankrupt. They probalby go out of their way for every 1 out 20 complaints so they have a few people out there that have something good to say. You even said youself that EAA customer service is horrible. As for guns blowing up, I alluded to the fact that their is always a chance something will go wrong when you instantly pressurize a little metal cylinder with tens of thousands of pounds of pressure. $h!t happens and always will. EAA however doesn't do their part to ensure the buyer gets a safe and reliable product. For that reason, I cannot trust the rest of their products either to be safe or to go bank when its supposed to, or God forbids needs to.

 

[bad_man_ one]

I finally had a chance to get to the range today with the EAA Witness-P 10 m.m.
Put five different types of ammo thru it with ZERO problems.
I even put my nuclear reloads thru it. I was very impressed with the accuracy.
It does get your attention compared to my heavier Stainless Steel framed Smith and Wesson's.

ShelbyV8,
Mine looks just like yours but without the acc. rail.
Regards,
BM1