1006 misfires...

[amazingflapjack]

Hi everyone-I recently purchased a 1006 and took it to the range yesterday. I had some hard cast SWC's that I had loaded for my 610, all in new brass-WLP primers-same batch. I had multiple misfires, and when looking at the primer hits, they were quite a bit lighter than those I had previously fired in my 610. Last night, I pulled one misfire apart, and all was as it should have been. The gun shot well and accurately when it did fire, and functioned well otherwise. I would appreciate all suggestions. Thanks, Flapjack.

 

[Denver Dick]

Did you crimp the SWC? Remember that the cartridge headspaces on the mouth of the case. Another possibility is that one of the previous owners cut the hammer spring to "lighten" the pull. You might check to see that the firing pin is not obstructed (e.g., overly dirty firing pin channel). And, of course, there is the possibility that although the pistols is going into battery enough to allow the hammer to fall, it is not completely in battery. Such an event could be caused by the way the cartridge was reloaded. FWIW

 

[tomuchiron]

Pull some more bullets on the light strikes. See if the empty cases fire off all right in the 610. they probably will. Making it a 1006 problem.

 

[Mack]

Pull your barrel and see if the reloads will drop in flush with the barrel hood.

 

[amazingflapjack]

Here's what I found...

OK Guys-This same batch of ammo has been fired through the 610 with no misfires, but the pin strikes were much harder. As to the crimp, yes-they have all been through a Lee factory crimp die-and along with that-I tried dropping a bunch of those that I have not tried-and most of them sit up so that you can just feel the case head a hair above the barrel hood. When I tried the misfires that I brought home from the range, they all set so the you could feel the barrel hood was barely above the case head. So-is the problem the crimp die? Should I eliminate that step, or just adjust back until they sit even, or a hair above the hood? How about changing to Federal primers? The smoke is beginning to clear. Let me know your thoughts, and thank you very much. Flapjack.

 

[Shadow1006]

You may need to clean the firing pin channel, and inspect the firing pin itself. You may have debris in the channel causing the light hits.

With an "UNLOADED PISTOL" Place a pencil (eraser down) inside the barrel with the gun pointing upward and pull the trigger to see if the firing pin will bounce the pencil upward...
You can also place the slide in your hand and push on the rear of the firing pin to see if it will protrude from the breech face.

If your cartridges are flush with the chamber hood or ever so slightly below you should be within the striking range with the ammo.

Good luck getting it resolved!

 

[amazingflapjack]

ballistic pencils...

I did the pencil experiment-it hit the ceiling! I had wondered about firing pin function-and I had attempted to push on the hammer end of it with the guide rod, but couldn't really tell. But, just in case, how do I clean the pin channel, the brake parts cleaner flush? Thanks, Flapjack.

 

[jdh]

If the pencil hit the ceiling the pistol is not the problem. Try some factory loads before you go trying to fix a problem that does not exist, creating one that does in the process.

 

[Shadow1006]

I did the pencil experiment-it hit the ceiling! I had wondered about firing pin function-and I had attempted to push on the hammer end of it with the guide rod, but couldn't really tell. But, just in case, how do I clean the pin channel, the brake parts cleaner flush? Thanks, Flapjack.

The pencil moved with that much force, your problem is probably not the pistol...

Your handloads may need some adjustments...you mentioned SWC bullets, what is your COAL and how much of the SWC shoulder is sticking past the case mouth? If your bullets are sticking on the end of the chamber or if you have some buildup at the end of the chamber cut, this may not be allowing the rounds to fully seat in the chamber to the proper depth. The cast bullet can be squeezed as you crimp and this might be expanding the alloy ahead of your crimp!

Cartridge Gauges can show you problems that your chamber may not!

 

[Denver Dick]

Got your e-mail, Flapjack.

Okay, what seems to be happening is that your crimping procedure is probably putting a very, very slight bulge in the case mouth just below the crimp. So, the cartridge is head spacing on the slight bulge. Now, when the firing pin strikes the primer (with what appears to be sufficient force), the energy is being wasted driving the cartridge deeper into the chamber rather than denting the primer.

Here's what I would do. First, I would bell the mouth of the case as little as possible and still be able to seat the bullet without shaving lead. Next, I would seat the bullet a little deeper than the crimping groove in the SWC. Finally, I would apply just enough crimping force to bring the mouth back to shape. In other words, you should be able to feel the mouth of the cartridge with you thumb nail. Then, with the barrel removed from the pistol, I would drop the cartridge in. It should drop freely with no drag and give a nice click as the mouth hits the end of the chamber. At that point, the back of the cartridge should be a hair below flush, certainly no higher than flush.

HTH

 

[amazingflapjack]

Bullseye

Hi guys, and thank you all. I think Denver D has got the answer, and I will load a batch as he suggested. I appreciate the firing pin test, and all of the other input that helped me narrow down the soloution. I have had a model 59 for over 20 years, and it just never really needed anything, and I just started to get back into pistols with a 4506 and a 1006-wow-there is just something about them. I have been working with revolvers for several years, but I hope I can contribute on this part of the forum now. Thanks again, I'll let you know how the new ammo works in a week or so. Flapjack.

 

[amazingflapjack]

The Resulrts...

Hi all-took the 1006 back to the range today with new ammo loaded according to your suggestions. I skipped the factory crimp die, and made sure there was a thumb nail ledge of brass to index on. I tested them in the barrel for a free fall to the bottom of the chmber, and they were right on. I found the chamber to be very nasty from the last firing, probably because of leakage around over crimped cases (?) It fired great, not a hitch. I loaded a hard cast lead 185gr LSWC over a little over 7 gr of Unique, and it made a very nice bullet for me. Now, can someone tell me how to drift the back sight just a tad. It needs to go right, so I will move it right, but how do you move it, and about how much to move it an inch and a half at 50 ft ? Thanks again to everyone. Go safely. Flapjack.

 

[epj]

Does your 1006 have fixed sights? You will have to remove the set screw and put some penetrating oil in the hole and let it sit. You can try moving it with a brass drift punch and hammer. Hard to get much precision that way, if you can move it at all. I build and sell a sight pusher designed originally for 3rd gen Smiths. You can find them on the 1911 forum or in the classifides here later this weekend. Yeah, I know. Shameless plug. In this case the OP really needs one.

There are other styles available on evil bay. I just don't think you're going to do much good with a punch and hammer. On every gen3 I've taken the rear sight off of, there has been corrosion under the sight and it was tighter than Dick's proverbial hatband.

 

[amazingflapjack]

OK...

Will this tool work on front sights as well? And how much is it? Thanks, Flapjack.

 

[pacific keeper]

Flapjack , I have had good results with a brass drift and my cheaters in place . I have even used a .556 case at the range . If your 1006 is like my 3rd gens then it has a small allen set screw that needs to be backed off and then drift the rear sight to the starboard or right side of the slide . If it is only an inch and a half at 50 ft it won't take much . Set the slide on a firm surface and if you have poor up close vision like me , Use those magnified glasses !

Hope this helps , Dave

 

[epj]

Will this tool work on front sights as well? And how much is it? Thanks, Flapjack.

Info located here:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/accessories-misc-sale-trade/214985-sight-pusher-tool.html

 

[Denver Dick]

FlapJack:

Glad to hear the ammo is working for you.

I would take it to the range a few times and shoot some more before I move the sight. I find it takes two or three trips to the range to get use to a particular pistol and make sure it's not me before I mess with the sights.

Good luck.

 

[amazingflapjack]

Hey Dick and all-yes, the 3rd Gen trigger takes a little OJT. I have had a 1st gen-m-59 for over 25 years, and it must have a custom trigger, because it is so much nicer than either this 1006, or the 4506. I bought it used, and it came with a shoulder rig, so who knows. I'm waiting for a 4006 I bought to get here. It's the one with the "heavy barrel" that no one seems to know anything about. Got to call S&W when I can. I really like this 1006, I had a Desert Eagle somewhere on my list-either a 357 or a 44mag, but with the right load, I'm right in between, with the equivelent of a 41 mag-so who needs that big honkn' howitzer?!! Go safely. Flapjack.