104 year old 1911 Black Army

BB57

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I went back to the local gun shop this afternoon intending to buy a scope I'd looked at the other day to upgrade the glass on one of my precision rifles.

I was there looking at their ring selection when Bill walked up and asked me how I was doing and said you're a S&W guy, do you have any interest in Colts? I said sure and he brought out a mint condition Colt Python (which I like but this one was way to nice to shoot). He also brought out a 1911 "Black Army" made in 1918.

I looked at it, admired it and told him I'd think about it. He told me it had just been listed on GB with 60 pictures taken during a detail strip and clean. He had it detail stripped as it had a bad case of 100 years of too much oil gumming it while it languished where ever it had languished.

I pulled up the listing on my phone in the store, scrolled through all 60 pictures. I also looked at what they have been selling for at auction in similar and much worse condition and asked Jerry to go get Bill and tell him I'll take it.

I didn't argue the price as I got it for literally half of what it's worth.

So…no scope, but a nice 1911.

The 350,951 serial number is 951 past the end of Clawson's 312,000-350,000 transition range from "brushed blued" to "Black Army" and the metal shows both the lack of final polish and the dark charcoal bluing process.

The roll marks are sharp and crisp and there are no signs of a refinish, or (with the exception of the magazine) any cold blue touch up. The small parts show the typical mix master appearance of the a Black Army pistols as Colt procured small parts from other manufactures, some of which still final polished the parts.

The grips are reproductions given the finish, the excessive size of the clearance cuts for the mainspring housing retaining pin, and the number of lines between the double diamond grips. I'll see if I can find a suitably nice pair of originals somewhere.

The magazine is original, or at least correct for the gun. Unfortunately some well meaning but misguided soul in the distant past cold blued the upper portion that should have been left in the white. I'll need to see if I can fix that.

Overall, not bad at all for 104 years old.

001(180).HEIC

001(179).HEIC

001(177).HEIC

001(178).HEIC

001(176).HEIC
 
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I really like the look of that one!!! Lucky man! When it comes to 1911's, I believe the older the better. Thanks for showing.
 
It looks really good to me. That is a very high condition for a "Black Army" Colt.

Agreed. They are known for poorly wearing and flaking bluing do to inadequate surface preparation. When I first saw it I was skeptical and figured it had been rebound, but the very crisp roll marks and original surface finish indicate it hasn't been refinished.

It's either had a comparatively easy life, or someone at Colt was still putting more time on surface prep than the Govt wanted.
 
A text book example of "they don't make 'em like that anymore".
 
That is a very nice one. I've had a few of those and very few remain in the condition that yours is in. Well worth getting some original grips for that one. Congratulations.
 
Congratulations on a fine acquisition.

What a coincidence though. I too managed to snag a Black Army this past weekend at local gunshow. A 400XXX serial number puts it in the last contract guns of 1918-19.

Mine has been refinished, but a long time ago, and due to the crispness of the rollmarks and acceptance stamps, I'm thinking it was factory refinished. Whomever performed the work, it's top notch. Under the hood it's correct except for a WW2 High Standard barrel and the addition of a 1911a1 extended tang grip safety (a good swap imo).

They're amazing pieces of history.

(thought I'd share a pic with a couple of it's distant cousins in 380 and 32 :) )
 

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Is the rear portion of the barrel (what is visible in the ejection port) finished in any way, or just left in the white?
Military 1911 barrels had all of the exterior surfaces blued, even the feed ramp. Same goes for 1911-A1 barrels. Those made as replacements during the Vietnam era and into the 1990's were phosphated and had chrome lined bore, chamber, and feed ramp. Leaving the portion visible in the ejection port in the white is a civilian thing, likely done to keep it looking nice rather than seeing scrape marks in the finish after the pistol has been fired.
 
Congratulations on a fine acquisition.

What a coincidence though. I too managed to snag a Black Army this past weekend at local gunshow. A 400XXX serial number puts it in the last contract guns of 1918-19.

Mine has been refinished, but a long time ago, and due to the crispness of the rollmarks and acceptance stamps, I'm thinking it was factory refinished. Whomever performed the work, it's top notch. Under the hood it's correct except for a WW2 High Standard barrel and the addition of a 1911a1 extended tang grip safety (a good swap imo).

They're amazing pieces of history.

(thought I'd share a pic with a couple of it's distant cousins in 380 and 32 :) )

Very nice.

The 400,000-500,000 range serial number puts it in the same 233601-580600 serial block as mine - 347,000 pistols made for the US Army by Colt. It's interesting that those were all brush blued (roughly 77,000) or Black Army (roughly 265,000) made in the last half of 1918 and more than doubling total 1911 production since 1911.

Logistics win wars and it's American production capacity and its ability to be upscale quickly that our allies craved and our enemies feared in WWI and WWII.

To me, that's much of the appeal of war time produced small arms like the brushed blue and black army 1911s, the Remington Rand, Union Switch and Signal, and Singer 1911A1s, and the various M1 and M1 Carbines made by civilian companies converted to war time firearms making. It doesn't get much more "American" than that and they serve to remind me of what we can do, when we are all united in the same cause.

——

The short grip safety tang on the 1911 does invite some hammer bite. Had there not been a great deal of pressure to speed up 1911 production, followed by a suspension of contracts post war for all but 57,000 pistols combined from Colt and Remington in early 1919, I doubt they would have waited until 1924 to change it.
 
Nice example, few made it through without being rebuilt and parked along the way. Probably got snagged early on in it's life and brought home by a GI.
 
Nice example, few made it through without being rebuilt and parked along the way. Probably got snagged early on in it's life and brought home by a GI.

Given the dates of manufacture from about June 1918 onward, that only left 5 months first of them to be accepted, shipped, issued and used prior to November 11, 1918.

I don't think all that many saw combat, with the majority being stored until WWII. Those that did see combat would have either been "lost" and came home with a GI, or would have remained in service and been arsenal rebuilt at some point.

Given the lack of wear on mine, I suspect it either went home with a doughboy, or more likely ended up in cosmoline and in storage and didn't see extensive use.
 
Military 1911 barrels had all of the exterior surfaces blued, even the feed ramp. Same goes for 1911-A1 barrels. Those made as replacements during the Vietnam era and into the 1990's were phosphated and had chrome lined bore, chamber, and feed ramp. Leaving the portion visible in the ejection port in the white is a civilian thing, likely done to keep it looking nice rather than seeing scrape marks in the finish after the pistol has been fired.

Agreed. Bluing the entire barrel was common on many European military pistols as well. It offered more protection from rust, and it was much quicker and easier to do the whole thing than mask off or polish the blue off of sections to leave them in the white.

It was all about speed of production, especially in war time, with a focus on function rather than appearance.

The two tone magazine bodies are a good example. Colt initially tempered the magazine feed lips, and then blued the entire magazine body. However they found the heat in the bluing process was adversely affecting the heat treatment of the feed lips.

So they fully blued them first, then dipped them in molten cyanide (1600 degrees F) to a point below the magazine catch, and then quenched them in oil to heat treat the magazine feed lips. However the dip process removed the bluing on that portion of the magazine.
 
This forum NEVER disappoints with regards to the firearms knowledge of it's members. :)

I can't seem to get enough fondling this old girl. :) I'm hoping for a range report either this week or next.
 

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Here is mine

It's a late October, 1918 example that went to Aberdeen Proving Grounds in Maryland.
It's one of the best pieces i own. I've fired a few magazines through it and it shoots perfectly.
 

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Did you just oil it prior to posting?

It's hard to say without seeing it in person, but my guess is 1960's(ish) re-blued.

Whether true or not, it is still very cool.

I have only seen these in person with a very flat black finish; again, hard to say without being there.

This is a special interest of mine maker and variant. I have been looking for a high-condition one for well...almost 20 years.
 
Re: "Well meaning misguided soul." An old friend of mine had one of the Black Colts. He was a B-17 pilot and carried it through the war ("that" war). I think he - as many others - earned the right to have his pistol re-blued and nicened up. Just cause the current hip group doesn't like refinished guns doesn't mean those guns will be out of vogue in the future. It's all part of the history of that gun. Who knows what future collectors will find desirable.
 
Noonster, if you are referring to my comment, understood and no judgement or emotions here my friend. I was just trying to provide commentary that I thought may be of interest to the owner. I own guns that are in original state for this category and refinished...some with no finish. :)

It's cool no matter what. Side note: The B-17 Flying Fortress is my avatar for a reason. Friend of mine that was a mentor as a child was a tail gunner. No disrespect meant and I hope it didn't come across that way. Best to you and yours, TH.
 
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