10mm Pistol Cartridge

[LVSteve]

Eww, hope he was okay?
Thank you, okay now I know.
Yeah, anyone that has a 10mm knows about the supported chamber feed ramps' importance.

Chamber support is often an issue with tilting barrel guns. If I ever went to 10mm it would be a factor I would carefully study. Of course, the issue can be avoided by getting a Grand Power as its rotating barrel pretty much guarantees 100% case support.

 

[Glenn R. McMannly]

The 10mm has got to be about the most overhyped cartridge of the past decade.

I am NOT a fan. It's a very limited cartridge for the roles of wilderness defense and those advocating its usage for big bruin are laughably misguided. A .44 or .454 they are NOT and never, ever will be unless you are adamant to turn your plastic Block into a hand grenade (and some have).

 

[STORMINORMAN]

The 10mm has got to be about the most overhyped cartridge of the past decade.

I am NOT a fan. It's a very limited cartridge for the roles of wilderness defense and those advocating its usage for big bruin are laughably misguided. A .44 or .454 they are NOT and never, ever will be unless you are adamant to turn your plastic Block into a hand grenade (and some have).

Well, there are generations of GLOCK Haters & GLOCK Fanboys, and the 40 S&W Haters (thankfully, all my GLOCKs and clones are 9mms!) exist as well... Certainly seems to have been (in its original format, anyway?) to have been a bit of a "handfull" for early anticipated users (as in some of the rank & file at the fbi)...

But I'm unfamiliar with this distain for the 10mm vis-a-vis being both a practical and effective caliber for "wilderness defense" for "big bruin"?.

There appear to be quite a few proponents (mostly from the Land of the Midnight Sun?) who uniformly advocate the 10mm for just that application. and seem to be able to back that position up with concrete examples and what seems to me to be logical reasoning (i.e., more capacity, less recoil, semi-automatic pistol vs. revolver, and, of course, MORE CAPACITY!).

Cheers!

P.S. ColbyBruce: any idea as to the nature of the actual ammunition used in the incident you described: factory, reloaded by the user (or possibly someone else)?

 

[Greyman50]

A well built 10 mm on a 1911 type is the way to go IMHO. Glocks are 9 mm and 40 S&W.

 

[ColbyBruce]

"ColbyBruce: any idea as to the nature of the actual ammunition used in the incident you described: factory, reloaded by the user (or possibly someone else)?"

The man was ahead of me at the counter and purchased a fifty round box of Blazer aluminum case and two twenty round boxes of SD ammo. I don't remember those brands or which type he was firing when the incident occurred.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

"ColbyBruce: any idea as to the nature of the actual ammunition used in the incident you described: factory, reloaded by the user (or possibly someone else)?"

The man was ahead of me at the counter and purchased a fifty round box of Blazer aluminum case and two twenty round boxes of SD ammo. I don't remember those brands or which type he was firing when the incident occurred.

Thanks for the most prompt response! I was jus' wonderin'...

You never know!

Cheers!

 

[rosewood]

A case blowing out from an unsupported chamber and a gun "blowing up" are 2 different things. A case blowing out can happen with a standard pressure load and will likely damage the magazine and knock it out. This is because part of the base of the case is exposed and not enshrouded in the chamber. That leaves the brass having to contain the blast instead of the chamber. I have seen this happen with a 10mm in a 1911 (which was milled and now has a feed ramp). With a gun blowing up where the barrel becomes shrapnel, I believe that is a case of over pressure load, either by loading error, bullet setback or bore obstruction (squib). There is also the possibility of a poor quality barrel that is unable to contain a standard load.

Rosewood

 

[WR Moore]

The S&W 1006 is a very stout pistol with a fully supporting chamber and integral feed ramp. The pistols are large, reach to the trigger in DA is the same as an N frame revolver.

The ammo we burned for the first 5 years was a custom load of 180 gr bullet @1250 f/s +/- 50 f/s. The guns stood up to that very well. The ammo was produced by one of many now defunct boutique ammo makers: Impact Ammunition. We tested samples from each shipment to verify velocity. Dunno what powder they used, but those were the flattest primers I've ever seen.

 

[AJ]

The S&W 1006 is a very stout pistol with a fully supporting chamber and integral feed ramp. The pistols are large, reach to the trigger in DA is the same as an N frame revolver.

The ammo we burned for the first 5 years was a custom load of 180 gr bullet @1250 f/s +/- 50 f/s. The guns stood up to that very well. The ammo was produced by one of many now defunct boutique ammo makers: Impact Ammunition. We tested samples from each shipment to verify velocity. Dunno what powder they used, but those were the flattest primers I've ever seen.

The pistols are large and for some there lies the rub.........just to big for smaller hands. Guys with large mitts, complain about small guns. Six to one, and a half dozen to the other.

Recoil is an issue for some folks, but not others. My hands do not care for a lot of recoil due to Arthur visiting now. When I was younger recoil was not an issue, shot a 4 inch S&W 29-2 with full house rounds all the time. My Ruger SR1911 10MM has been ported at some point and that helps with recoil a lot with true 10MM loads. Have been shooting lighter loads in it for a couple of different reasons, 1.) Easier on hands, 2.) Conserving powder, 3.) Less wear and tear on the gun(and me), 4.) Don't need super duper velocity when just punching paper.

 

[Autonomous]

The 10mm cartridge is at the receiving end of more false lore than any other modern cartridge I'm aware of.
A few examples:

.41 Mag power. Nope, .357 Mag is close though.

Too much for the FBI. Actually, way more complicated than that.

Too small for Bruin defense. A lot of outdoor agencies, guides and knowledgeable sportsmen have traded their heavy revolvers for the rapid and more accurate follow up fire of a 10mm pistol.
Strong evidence has been compiled that defensive shooting of bears with handguns regardless of caliber are overwhelmingly successful. It is not intuitive but it's what the data shows.
Even a polar bear has been killed with a 10mm.

A pistol will jam when wrasslin' with a bear and the muzzle is pressed up against it.
Oh, please. Some gun writer had a page to fill but nothing to say

 

[Echo40]

The info about potential problems with 10mm glocks is quite intriguing. As mentioned in the post above I want to get a 10mm auto at some point in the future to own a semi-auto pistol with magnum-like ballistics.

But after hearing about potential problems with the glocks I might look into another 10mm pistol.

which 10mm auto pistols would you say are the most robust?

Something like a Colt Delta or the S&W 1076?

When I was shopping for a 10mm Pistol, the one I kept coming back to was the Tanfoglio Witness, it's basically the closest living relative to a BrenTEN — the original 10mm Pistol — on the market.

 

[stansdds]

When I was shopping for a 10mm Pistol, the one I kept coming back to was the Tanfoglio Witness, it's basically the closest living relative to a BrenTEN — the original 10mm Pistol — on the market.

And that will likely remain the case. Seems every effort to revive the Bren Ten has ended in failure.

 

[agent00]

When I was shopping for a 10mm Pistol, the one I kept coming back to was the Tanfoglio Witness, it's basically the closest living relative to a BrenTEN — the original 10mm Pistol — on the market.

Thanks for your recommendation. The Tanfoglio Witness looks interesting indeed. I will keep that gun in mind when shopping for 10mm gun.

The 10mm Ruger model that was recommended by another user also looks nice. I never had a Colt 1911 type handgun but I find these pistols aesthetically pleasing

 

[Echo40]

Thanks for your recommendation. The Tanfoglio Witness looks interesting indeed. I will keep that gun in mind when shopping for 10mm gun.

By the way, it looks like they're no longer calling it the Witness, but rather the "Defiant" or "Force" depending on the configuration.

If it were me, then the specific model I would go for is the Tanfoglio Defiant Limited Pro.

On a side note, it really illustrates just how far the economy has suffered over the past few years, when back at the beginning of 2021 when I was shopping for a 10mm Pistol, that model only cost $900, but now in 2024, it costs $1200

 

[LVSteve]

On a side note, it really illustrates just how far the economy has suffered over the past few years, when back at the beginning of 2021 when I was shopping for a 10mm Pistol, that model only cost $900, but now in 2024, it costs $1200

The other factor there might be EAA establishing themselves in the famously fickle 10 mm market in the US. Once they did that, the price edged up. Canik have done this exact thing in the 9 mm market.

 

[colt_saa]

The other factor there might be EAA establishing themselves in the famously fickle 10 mm market in the US. Once they did that, the price edged up. Canik have done this exact thing in the 9 mm market.

I do not understand why you say this.

EAA (Tangfolio) has been making 10MM Witness pistols for many years. The oldest one that I have I bought more than 15 years ago.

 

[Echo40]

Yeah, Tanfoglio didn't jump on the 10mm Bandwagon, they were one of the few remaining firearms manufacturers to continue producing 10mm Auto Pistols when it was still a faded star with a devoted cult following, hence why I recommended them to begin with, they're time-proven 10mm Pistols with an excellent track record.

 

[T. McIntyre]

Are you asking for Non-LE shootings?

Over the last 30+ years there have to be many 1,000s perhaps even 10s of 1,000s of documented 10MM defensive shootings involving humans

Or are you seeking animal encounters?

Show the documents.



If you are going to make a statement like that, then you may want to back it up with a refence to somewhere like CDE (Crime Data Explorer) within the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports.

For those not familiar, the UCR, per their own definition:


Crime/Law Enforcement Stats (Uniform Crime Reporting Program)
The Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program generates reliable statistics for use in law enforcement. It also provides information for students of criminal justice, researchers, the media, and the public. The program has been providing crime statistics since 1930.

The UCR Program includes data from more than 18,000 city, university and college, county, state, tribal, and federal law enforcement agencies. Agencies participate voluntarily and submit their crime data either through a state UCR program or directly to the FBI's UCR Program.


Now, with that said, there have not been 10s of thousands of documented shootings using the 10mm. There have not even been thousands of shootings reported in the last 30 years.

This reminds me of the "More deer have been killed with the 30-30 than all other cartridges combined" type stuff. Take your favorite cartridge, a gun counter (now the gun counter glass has been replaced by the internet) and this type of "internet fact" is born.

It may be a favorite, and a good cartridge but the best way to promote a cartridge (or anything else) is to stick with factual credible information.