110 Grain hollow point... for .357 or .38?
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bmcgilvray
Member
I went through a short phase of using them in the late 70s/early 80s, back when it was thought that speed kills. Not too keen on them any more. They seem to shoot a little low for fixed sight guns. I like more weight in my .38/.357 bullets and use the light weight slugs in 9mm and .380. Only my view.
They could make reasonable practice ammunition though.
They could make reasonable practice ammunition though.
Steve C
Member
I bought a batch of 500 IMI 110gr .357 JHP's several years ago, still have 2 or 3 hundred left. Never found a really good accurate load with them for the .38 spl and kind of gave up on them. Much rather load 125gr JHP's.
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
I'm not a big fan of light for caliber bullets. I'm not much a fan of even the 125gr bullet in the .357 Magnum even though it's a proven man stopper. I like 140gr bullet and heavier in the .357 Magnum.
For the .38 Special I'm pretty much on the same lines. I usually don't shoot anything lighter than the 135gr Speer Gold Dot ammo. I'm a big fan of the FBI Load in the .38 Special.
Just my opinions....
For the .38 Special I'm pretty much on the same lines. I usually don't shoot anything lighter than the 135gr Speer Gold Dot ammo. I'm a big fan of the FBI Load in the .38 Special.
Just my opinions....
VAdoublegunner
Member
I bought a bunch of the Win jhp ones at one time because they were cheap (they have a deep concave base, like a Minie ball) and shot them for quite a while. I really liked them at the range. I loaded them up with 6.4 gr Unique in 38 Special +p brass, which seems hot compared to a some loading manuals but that was listed as the 'accuracy' load in the Sierra manual (can't remember the edition, around 1995-6). They really were very accurate, and low recoiling. Better yet, they gave a serious report and flash that made them seem much bigger than they were, especially from a snub. They will shoot really low unless you crank the sights way up, but they were great in my 2.5" 686 and are still one of my favorite loads in my 2" Model 15. I never chrono'd them, but I imagine they would work well as a close quarters defensive load.
nightshade2x
Member
WOW 6.4 gr of Unique seems WAY WAY hot for a .38. Hell I'm using 4.9 gr. in a .38 case with 148-158 grainers and I get flack for that being hot.
But hey if it works
Have fun and be safe.
Nightshade2x
But hey if it works
Have fun and be safe.
Nightshade2x
WOW 6.4 gr of Unique seems WAY WAY hot for a .38. Hell I'm using 4.9 gr. in a .38 case with 148-158 grainers and I get flack for that being hot.
But hey if it works
Have fun and be safe.
Nightshade2x
Thats right at Alliants max of 6.3 grs Unique for the 110 bullet.+P load.
The 135 Speer GDHP uses 5.2 grs Unique for a +P round
Heavier bullets usually less powder. I know, doesn't seem logical but it's physics and velocity stuff..
Try this intuitive approach and see if it helps:
Smokeless powder generates ZERO pressure if burned without containment (in the open).
Smokeless powder generates maximum pressure when completely contained in a sealed chamber with no outlet.
There you have the two limits of pressure that the powder can produce, and complete containment usually means a blown gun.
Therefore, a heavier bullet provides MORE containment and the same amount of powder would generate MORE pressure.
To keep from blowing up the gun, the allowable max powder charge is REDUCED when going to a heavier bullet.
Good explanation and better stated than mine. I understand it and was more for nightshade. By containment you are saying the heavier bullet is longer and taking up more space in the the case? Or requiring more energy or force to move the bullet out of the case due to it's weight?
How does bullet composition enter into it? Lead vs copper and neck tension of the same weight bullet. Lead usually being less powder as there is less resistance to get it moving?
I have tried a Lee 105 SWC that casts out at 110 grains in my Tuarus .38 Spl with 5.0 grains of Bullseye..it was remarkably accurate and a lot of fun to shoot. Great can plinker, which was what I wanted it for. Lead is now expensive and going to a lighter bullet to plink to me makes a lot of sense. MV was just over 1,100 FPS in a 6" barrel. Also shot very well in my Marlin 1894C Carbine. I sized them big at .359".
bmcgilvray
Member
The 1978 Sierra manual shows quite a bit more Unique than 6.4 grains. I'll leave it to someone to sleuth out the maximum listed load for Unique and a 110 grain bullet in that manual. It has a number of eyebrow-raising maximum listed loads in it. Some are along the lines of the Speer No. 8 and SR 4756.
Some 30 years ago I worked up to Sierra's maximum listed load for Unique in the .38 Special with their 110 grain JHP, chronographing it from a 4-inch Model 10 and from an 8 3/8-inch Model 14 to obtain the following:
MV 1295 fps: 4-inch barrel
MV 1434 fps: 8 3/8-inch barrel
The Sierra 1978 maximum Unique load doesn't hold a candle to their maximum listed .38 Special load using Blue Dot with their 110 grain JHP:
1388 fps: 4-inch barrel
1573 fps: 8 3/8-inch barrel
My notes indicated that I thought the Blue Dot load to be fairly accurate. I don't now recall what that meant.
The maximum listed Unique load for Sierra's 158 grain JHP was 6.4 grains in their 1978 manual. I never attempted to work up to that.
Some 30 years ago I worked up to Sierra's maximum listed load for Unique in the .38 Special with their 110 grain JHP, chronographing it from a 4-inch Model 10 and from an 8 3/8-inch Model 14 to obtain the following:
MV 1295 fps: 4-inch barrel
MV 1434 fps: 8 3/8-inch barrel
The Sierra 1978 maximum Unique load doesn't hold a candle to their maximum listed .38 Special load using Blue Dot with their 110 grain JHP:
1388 fps: 4-inch barrel
1573 fps: 8 3/8-inch barrel
My notes indicated that I thought the Blue Dot load to be fairly accurate. I don't now recall what that meant.
The maximum listed Unique load for Sierra's 158 grain JHP was 6.4 grains in their 1978 manual. I never attempted to work up to that.
All of the above factors affect total resistance to expansion, which is the containment.
nightshade2x
Member
I didn't really need an explanation of that, I understand the concept but thanks for your effort.
Have fun and be safe.
Nightshade2x
Have fun and be safe.
Nightshade2x
My bad then.
You seemed shocked at the amount of powder for a light bullet compared to a heavier bullet so I thought a little explanation might help.No offense meant.
nightshade2x
Member
Ok, no problem.
Have fun and be safe.
Nightshade2x
Have fun and be safe.
Nightshade2x
semperfi71
US Veteran
A few years back a gunwriter named John Wooters out of Texas wrote that he used the 125 grain bullets in his .357s exclusively. He said he tried the 110 grain bullets but found the expansion no better than the 125s on game up to the size of Texas whitetails.
He wrote interesting stuff by the way and an excellent book on hunting trophy deer.
He wrote interesting stuff by the way and an excellent book on hunting trophy deer.
VAdoublegunner
Member
Interesting that he would try the 110 JHPs on larger game. I think penetration would be poor but they would likely be better in a handgun than a carbine. Out of a carbine like a Marlin 1894 I get spectacular velocity with them (let's just say a good bit over 2300fps). I'm not sure much would be left to penetrate following impact since they are designed to open at lower handgun velocities. But if you had a flat point one with a tough enough jacket it sure could be interesting!
I know the 125gr JHPs are often used on deer out of a 357 Mag handgun. In fact, my cousin-in-law the late gunwriter Bob Shimek favored a 125 JHP in his Model 27 for many years and had good success with it. He kept ranges under 50 yards though and only took broadside heart/lung shots. He later went to 140gr bullets.
I know the 125gr JHPs are often used on deer out of a 357 Mag handgun. In fact, my cousin-in-law the late gunwriter Bob Shimek favored a 125 JHP in his Model 27 for many years and had good success with it. He kept ranges under 50 yards though and only took broadside heart/lung shots. He later went to 140gr bullets.
semperfi71
US Veteran
VAdoublegunner,
I distinctly remember reading an article by Bob Shimek about his 8 3/8 M27 and how he shot so many 125 grain top end loads out of it the revolver finally "shot loose" if I remember his description. It was a great article.
I suspect John Wooters tried the 110 grainers on lesser game than deer. He was knowledgeable enough to perhaps not try that.
I tried the 110 grainers and even the old Remington 95 grainers. The problem I had was they would not take a full house charge of H110, W296, or 2400 so that I could get truly max velocities. The cases would not accomodate full loads of powder.
I distinctly remember reading an article by Bob Shimek about his 8 3/8 M27 and how he shot so many 125 grain top end loads out of it the revolver finally "shot loose" if I remember his description. It was a great article.
I suspect John Wooters tried the 110 grainers on lesser game than deer. He was knowledgeable enough to perhaps not try that.
I tried the 110 grainers and even the old Remington 95 grainers. The problem I had was they would not take a full house charge of H110, W296, or 2400 so that I could get truly max velocities. The cases would not accomodate full loads of powder.
I fooled around with 110 JHP's in .357 many years back. I tried them out on some fish carcasses and found they would expand vigorously but lacked penetration, which I think is pretty standard for this particular style of bullet in .357 diameter. Recoil, even when loaded to max, is pretty tame. Like most everyone else, I prefer standard weight bullets in .357/.38 Special but they will do fine for practice. As someone mentioned, expect them to shoot quite low compared to 158 grain bullets; that gets to be a headache in a fixed sight gun.
Missionary
Member
Greetings
I would not use a 110 on anything bigger than a coyotee. Out of a rifle maybe out to 100 yds. A revolver I would not go to past 50yds. The 110´s are explosive on groundhogs.
I would not use a 110 on anything bigger than a coyotee. Out of a rifle maybe out to 100 yds. A revolver I would not go to past 50yds. The 110´s are explosive on groundhogs.
