147 grain and my 39-2

[safearm]

I called smith and wesson today and spoke with them about it. Apparently the smith and wesson 39-2 wont handle the +p rounds

A 39-2 will handle +P far longer than you will. Illinois State Police carried the Model 39 in various models for over 30 years and used +P+ ammo without any adverse effects.

Today's 147 grain loads are much better than the loads of 20 years ago, which everyone seems to be discussing. In fact, Winchester's Ranger-T 147 grain load is one of the best defense loads on the market.

 

[Elmer]

Well, I have seen people and dogs shot with the expensive, hi-tech Gold Dot that expands wonderfully and then falls out of the entrance wound because THE BULLET DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH VELOCITY AND THEREFORE FAILS TO ADEQUATELY PENETRATE.

Interesting. Where are you seeing all these people and dogs shot with Gold Dot and it "falls out of the entrance wound"?

This is earth shattering news. I'd love to get that data. At least point me to an agency. I have the credentials and connections to get the reports on it.

 

[Elmer]

Sheer velocity does not determine penetration as opposed to bullet weight, expansion rate, and momentum. I have never known Speer Gold Dot rounds in recognized combat calibers to fail adequate penetration in real world shootings. The exception is the Gold Dot115gr 9mm +P+.

Even the 115 grain +P+ does 10 1/2" in bare gel and 15"-16" after heavy clothing. But yes, the 124 and 147 do better.

 

[CraigJ]

39-2 +P

FWIW, I have some old Federal 95 grain flat point ammo rated at 1400 fps issued by the ISP in the late 70's and early 80's. They shot qualification with this load and I got to watch some of the better shots for the ISP in an informal practice at 50 yards. Those guys did quite well. And I have about 8 of those rounds which I kept. The one gunfight report from the involved trooper stated his shot hit the bicep area and traveled up the arm to the chest cavity.
CraigJ
PS: I still have a box of the Winchester 115 +P+ that the ISP used!

 

[sigp220.45]

I like the 147 grain 9mm. My agency has issued it for 20 years without a failure of any kind that I'm aware of. I read all the shooting reports, so I'm pretty sure

A friend of mine shot a guy with an early generation 147 grain Hydra-Shok. The bullet went through a car windshield and hit the bad guy in the upper lip. This weak, useless round then plowed through the gent's face and into his brain, killing him instantly.

One thing the 147s do is penetrate. I would be very skeptical of a report of a 147 grain 9mm falling out of an entrance wound.

I remember a shooting involving the Hazelton PD (not sure what state) which generated a lot of misinformation regarding some .40 cal rounds which supposedly only penetrated an inch. I've read the followup report of that shooting where it was determined the rounds only an inch under the skin had actually penetrated from the other side of the body.

The funny thing about the 9mm 147 is that if you take that same bullet, launch it at the same velocity, but load it in a .38 Special case headstamped +P+ it becomes the hammer of Thor, suitable for use only in N-frame Smith and Thompson Contenders!

 

[madforstuff]

HELP called s&w said if ammo boxs dosen't have SIM marking on it i can not use? went to gun show this weekend picked up 3 S&W lnib, s&w 908,s&w 910 and a 4043 40cal.and ammo 2 boxs of winchester 9mm luger white box 147gr jhp ,2 boxs of real black talons 9mm 147gr sxt, can i shoot them in my 908, 910 ?