I have been shooting up some lead bullets friend gave me. They are 148 gr lead double ended wad cutters. The old book I am using shows a min and max load of 3.2 gr for unique. I have been shooting these loaded like this and they work fine. They are still a little stout from my 642 but real pussycats in my 686. I do think at times I am getting a little key holing with my 642 but the 686 is a tack driver with them. Today I loaded up the last of them with 3.2 gr unique. I looked down in the case and realized just how little powder was in the case. Is this load too light? Is there any danger in running such a small powder charge? I only have about 200 left that are loaded up like this so it is not really a big deal. I guess it is more for my own knowledge that I want to know.
148 grain DEWC in 38 SPL over 3.2 gr Unique?
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Dale53
Member
I run a "goodly number" of dbl ended cast w/c's in my .38/,357's. I cast the H&G #251.
They respond with better accuracy when running Bullseye from 3.2-3.5 grs. I seat the bullet with the first band out of the case for better alignment of the cylinder throats and taper crimp on the tail end of the first band. I seat the bullets "sprue up" so that the perfect nose becomes the perfect base (the base of the bullet is the "steering wheel").
Your load is too light. Lyman #4 Cast Bullet Handbook shows a 150 gr W/C ahead of 3.7-4.2 grs of Unique.
Dale53
They respond with better accuracy when running Bullseye from 3.2-3.5 grs. I seat the bullet with the first band out of the case for better alignment of the cylinder throats and taper crimp on the tail end of the first band. I seat the bullets "sprue up" so that the perfect nose becomes the perfect base (the base of the bullet is the "steering wheel").
Your load is too light. Lyman #4 Cast Bullet Handbook shows a 150 gr W/C ahead of 3.7-4.2 grs of Unique.
Dale53
Several of the guys at my gun club (including me) run DEWC or HBWC with 2.4gr Bullseye or 2.4gr Titegroup for PPC. Those loads are lighted than most modern starting loads...way light.
According to my 45th Lymann book, there are a few lead bullet loads (168gr, 195gr) using 3.0gr of Unique. Others listed starting charge is 3.5gr of Unique.
At 3.2gr, you should be fine. See what others here have to say.
According to my 45th Lymann book, there are a few lead bullet loads (168gr, 195gr) using 3.0gr of Unique. Others listed starting charge is 3.5gr of Unique.
At 3.2gr, you should be fine. See what others here have to say.
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
Thread drift:
This is not a slap at anyone, so, Ceapea, don't take it wrong. I just don't understand the logic behind the "super mouse F**t" loads for gaming. Two reasons, #1 being, there is no way to keep from chasing a squib in the rapid fire drills and #2 it gives someone a false sense of accomplishment with a firearm. I've seen them, sure you have too, the "Gunslinger" that games with a gun. The problem in my mind comes when they have to fire full force loads. Are their skills up to dealing with the recoil, muzzle blast?
I have shot PPC, mostly an indoor gallery type, for a few years now. I came in third the first year I shot it using a standard 38spl load of 3.5gr of Bullseye under a 158gr LSWC.
From that time forward, I came to be the range officer in many matches and ran a PPC league for a time. That took me out of the competition for placement but still, I used those loads and could wind up in the top 2 or three every time. That was with a standard out of the box M586 6" with no trigger work too. I could usually spank those that used custom guns as well, even the autos.
Sorry for the thread drift. Personally, I am going to use my gaming as practice for life. Just me though!
Thread drift:
This is not a slap at anyone, so, Ceapea, don't take it wrong. I just don't understand the logic behind the "super mouse F**t" loads for gaming. Two reasons, #1 being, there is no way to keep from chasing a squib in the rapid fire drills and #2 it gives someone a false sense of accomplishment with a firearm. I've seen them, sure you have too, the "Gunslinger" that games with a gun. The problem in my mind comes when they have to fire full force loads. Are their skills up to dealing with the recoil, muzzle blast?
I have shot PPC, mostly an indoor gallery type, for a few years now. I came in third the first year I shot it using a standard 38spl load of 3.5gr of Bullseye under a 158gr LSWC.
From that time forward, I came to be the range officer in many matches and ran a PPC league for a time. That took me out of the competition for placement but still, I used those loads and could wind up in the top 2 or three every time. That was with a standard out of the box M586 6" with no trigger work too. I could usually spank those that used custom guns as well, even the autos.
Sorry for the thread drift. Personally, I am going to use my gaming as practice for life. Just me though!
I agree with you. See one of my other threads about what i want to do with my new 38 SPL loads. I am looking to load up rounds that are closer to a true 38 spl like i would use if push came to shove.
In the future i will be using diff bullets loaded up to more normal FPS. But the loading book i had only said 3.2gr of unigue for the 148 gr DEWC and i am new to reloading. i am seeing that most books are just a starting point and not set in stone.
148 DEWC
Just thought I'd add...I am a big fan of the double ended wad cutter (148 gr) in the .38 Special. I use 3.4 grains of Titegroup. A nice moderate load with great accuracy and control in the K frame. A bit snappy in the J frame...but still fun to shoot. I agree with previous posters....weak loads can be just as dangerous as hot loads. And yes, these buggers need to be seated deeply to ensure chambering, I crimp the same as described in previous post.
As a technique, after all my cases are charged (50 at a time) and sitting in the cartridge block, I take a penlight and visually check the powder level in each case. First, row by row, and then again column by column. Better safe than sorry.
Cap
Just thought I'd add...I am a big fan of the double ended wad cutter (148 gr) in the .38 Special. I use 3.4 grains of Titegroup. A nice moderate load with great accuracy and control in the K frame. A bit snappy in the J frame...but still fun to shoot. I agree with previous posters....weak loads can be just as dangerous as hot loads. And yes, these buggers need to be seated deeply to ensure chambering, I crimp the same as described in previous post.
As a technique, after all my cases are charged (50 at a time) and sitting in the cartridge block, I take a penlight and visually check the powder level in each case. First, row by row, and then again column by column. Better safe than sorry.
Cap
Pigirondan
Member
I use 5.0 grains of Unique.
Mind if I ask which old book you are using?
The threat of reduced loads, other than the slowest of slow burning powders, or others that have specific warnings, is with drastic reductions. You shouldn't have any problems with your load.
The threat of reduced loads, other than the slowest of slow burning powders, or others that have specific warnings, is with drastic reductions. You shouldn't have any problems with your load.
ray45
Member
148 gr. DEWC ...38 Special....CCI 500 SPP....3.5 Unique
This load works well for me.
This load works well for me.
bluetopper
Member
I too am a firm believer in the 148gr DEWC, as It's the only bullet I load in 38 any more. I reserve my 158gr for .357.
I've always loaded the sprue to the rear as I've always figured the more perfect end would cut the air in flight in a more even/true way?
I like a 3.3gr of Bullseye and yes I feel your charge of 3.2gr Unique is way too light. I'd bump it up to 4.0 with no reservations.
I've always loaded the sprue to the rear as I've always figured the more perfect end would cut the air in flight in a more even/true way?
I like a 3.3gr of Bullseye and yes I feel your charge of 3.2gr Unique is way too light. I'd bump it up to 4.0 with no reservations.
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hurricane92
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I loaded 4.0 gr of Unique under a 125 LRNFP in a .38 Special and had a lot of unburned powder. I'll save the Unique for other applications from now on.
ray45
Member
Remember, DEWC seats deaper than the WC so there will be more pressure. When loading DEWC keep this in mind.
Pigirondan
Member
Actually, I use three loads for my 148 grain DEWC. 3.5 grains Bullseye, 4.0 grains Red Dot and 5.0 grains Unique. All very accurate out to 25 yards. If I plan on shooting at a longer distance, I load 158 grain SWC instead. (Same powder measurements.)
Alk8944
US Veteran
Seating depth isn't the issue in this case. A 148 gr. bullet contains the same volume of metal no matter what the shape. Both a hollow base and bevel base or DEWC take up exactly the same case volume assuming thet are seated to the same over-all length. Don't forget the volume inside the hollow base is still part of the total case capacity.
Its an old Lee book. i got it from my friend to learn how to reload. i read it, copied the pages i needed and gave it back to him. but from what i recall it was a older lee book.
ray45
Member
Assumimg they are seated to the same inside depth and are the same weight. Some in this thread are talking about other types and weight bullets, also.
I agree that 5 grains Unique and DEWC in 38 special cases is a load used by many with no issues. I like 3.5 for light revolvers and target shooting/plinking. However, I do have hotter loads using Unique.
bmcgilvray
Member
I am no fan of using Unique in light loads. I have never loaded Unique in the .38 Special any lighter than 4.0 grains with 158 grain bullets and prefer 4.5 grains to 4.8 grains. If a person wants to make Unique REALLY burn dirty as its reputation then load it light. In admittedly very limited chronograph tests in .32-20, .38 Special, .44 Magnum, and .45 ACP I have formed a notion that Unique will give higher extreme spreads than it will if a bit more powder is ladled into the case.
I like Bulls-Eye for very light loadings.
I like Bulls-Eye for very light loadings.
Thread drift:
This is not a slap at anyone, so, Ceapea, don't take it wrong. I just don't understand the logic behind the "super mouse F**t" loads for gaming. Two reasons, #1 being, there is no way to keep from chasing a squib in the rapid fire drills and #2 it gives someone a false sense of accomplishment with a firearm. I've seen them, sure you have too, the "Gunslinger" that games with a gun. The problem in my mind comes when they have to fire full force loads. Are their skills up to dealing with the recoil, muzzle blast?
I have shot PPC, mostly an indoor gallery type, for a few years now. I came in third the first year I shot it using a standard 38spl load of 3.5gr of Bullseye under a 158gr LSWC.
From that time forward, I came to be the range officer in many matches and ran a PPC league for a time. That took me out of the competition for placement but still, I used those loads and could wind up in the top 2 or three every time. That was with a standard out of the box M586 6" with no trigger work too. I could usually spank those that used custom guns as well, even the autos.
Sorry for the thread drift. Personally, I am going to use my gaming as practice for life. Just me though!
No wrong taking here.
My 7th edition Hornady shows all three (two are discontinued) of their 148gr WC's loaded down to 2.4gr of Unique for 550 FPS. I think that based on that, 3.2 is not "light" in the least.
3.2gr falls right at 700 FPS. That seems about right for a target 38 spl. load.
Lee was my first guess when you said 3.2 was the min and max. load. Lee claims they get their data from the powder companies, which is hard to say, but it sure looks like they adjust the loads to make sure the start load works with their powder thingys. I'm not their biggest fan by the way.
If you are using their powder thingys they like to err on the side of caution with their load data and anyone using their stuff should use a scale to verify the loads they are actually getting.
