15-22 ammo choice for home defense?

[MR_T]

I would like to start by saying thank you to the members of this forum, this is the first gun that I have personally owned and I have learned a lot from this site. A couple of weeks ago I started looking for a gun to take on camping trips during the summer, I live in Colorado and got tired of being the only person without a gun on our camping trips. Didn't want to spend a lot on a gun and ammo prices were also a factor in deciding what gun to buy. I was in the market for a 10/22 to upgrade with an archangel stock and some goodies but found a brand new 15-22 for $400 with 3 extra mags, a vfg and no name red dot, could not pass it up. I have already put around 500 rounds through it and am absolutely happy with this gun. Have had only a couple of rounds that did not fire, and they were all just duds, no ftf yet

Anyway, since this is the only gun I own, I inevitably started thinking about home defense. From what I have been able to gather, the ammo I want to use would be "Augilia Hyper Velocity", which brings me to my question, is there any risk of over-penetration with this ammo. Lets say a bad guy breaks into my apartment and I am forced to shoot at him. First of all how effective would a few well placed rounds of augilia be against stopping the bad guy? Secondly, Is there a risk that any stray bullets could go though the wall and take out my neighbors? I live in an apartment building and some of my walls are your basic 2 sheets of drywall separated by 4" of air. Also any thoughts on the CCI pre fragmented rounds ?


Sorry about the long first post, been a long night lol, heres a quote on why I think the augilia makes sense for home defense

The following are 10 shot averages clocked 12' from the muzzle of my 15-22 using my PACT choronograph:

Winchester T-22 1106 FPS
CCI MiniMag 1111 FPS
Federal Bulk 1189 FPS
Remington Thunderbolt 1211 FPS
Augilia Hyper Velocity 1522 FPS

Worst grouping was from the Augilia, 2.58" @ 25 yds.
Best grouping was from the Winchester T-22, 1.03" @ 25 yds.
This data was gathered back in October, 2009.

 

[cp1969]

There is no way of knowing how effective a .22 is going to be. The range of outcomes goes all the way from killed instantly to no immediate effect at all; everything hinges on shot placement and especially first shot placement. In home defense situations, even placing the first shot well may not have the same effect because the bad guy may already be pumped up on adrenaline.

I was shot in the hand with a .22 mag and didn't even know it until I looked at it. You'd think it would hurt but I felt nothing at the time.

 

[lonejacklarry]

Anyway, since this is the only gun I own, I inevitably started thinking about home defense. From what I have been able to gather, the ammo I want to use would be "Augilia Hyper Velocity", which brings me to my question, is there any risk of over-penetration with this ammo. Lets say a bad guy breaks into my apartment and I am forced to shoot at him. First of all how effective would a few well placed rounds of augilia be against stopping the bad guy? Secondly, Is there a risk that any stray bullets could go though the wall and take out my neighbors?

My personal preference for home defense would be a Claymore mine but I would opine that the 15-22 would be better than nothing.

I had many years in law enforcement and can tell you that the .22 caused more deaths than all the rest combined until the kids started using Mac10s and other exotic things.

The problem w/ a .22 round is that it might take 2 or 3 days to kill a person unless the shot was very well placed. They did a lot of bone bouncing and caused many internal injuries but, as a rule, nothing happened suddenly.

A good, used .38 revolver w/ +P ammo would be a cheap reliable alternative. I know that folks will jump in and say you need a .45 automatic but they are way more expensive. A good pump shotgun would do as well especially if you are concerned about shooting through walls. #4 buck is my choice but it will go through sheet rock. Stick w/ a light bird load or BBs.

As you sound like you do not have much experience, I would recommend a weapon that is simple. As you experience and confidence increase, you can move to move exotic weapons. Stick w/ the basics for now.

 

[chuck s]

Over-penetration?

Over-penetration is the glossy gun magazine, article-selling, concern about rounds that pass thru the target's body and "wreak havoc" beyond that point.

What makes this so important? Why worry for a second about this rather than the 85% of bullets that just plain miss the target during moments of crisis. If we believe that data gathered from police engagements, that's the number. 15% of shots fired hit the target. Somewhere.

The "key" in any gunfight is fast incapacitation of the threat. Shoot to stop. Instant incapacitation is better. This is only caused by severing the central nervous system and the best chance of hitting that is via center of mass shots. "Shot placement" of your 15% of hits is vital. Waiting for several minutes for the target to bleed out, while all the time causing damage, is not what we want.

.22LR can certainly cause fatal wounds. The problem in a gunfight is they're not fatal fast enough. The holes are just too small for one thing. (A .45 ACP slug has 4x the cross sectional area of a .22LR and 4x as much damage potential, even if it doesn't expand. That goes to 10x with good .45ACP JHP ammo.)

Develop your skills inexpensively using your M&P 15-22. Get your self a 5.56mm version for home defense. 5.56mm has less potential for lethality on the other side of a wall than most center fire pistol ammo (from pistols or sub-machine guns) and has the same "over penetration concern."

-- Chuck

 

[DougStump]

I agree, there seem to be no way to predict if the little .22 will stop a bad guy. I’ve seen times where somebody got punctured by multiple rounds of .22 and never knew they had been hit.

On the flip side, shortly after I was stationed on Kunsan, Korea, the ROK Marines were having a training class with the .22 adaptors for the M-16. One of the adaptors, not installed in an M-16, still had a live round and it fired. It hit a student in the chest, went between two of his ribs and center punched his aorta. They brought him into the base hospital and we pumped all the blood we had on hand into him regardless of blood type. We had no facilities to crack open a chest so there wasn’t much we could do for him. Sadly, before we could get him to a hospital with surgical capabilities, he died.

 

[BeginingOfTheEnd]

During a crisis one won't rise to the occasion, he'll default into his current level of training. You should inquire at your local range or gun club as to what programs they offer, get involved, and all the while save up some cash for a proper self defense firearm. I started out out going to uspsa practices, then matches, then a cwp class. Practices are usually free, matches cost around $5-$10, and a cwp class shouldn't cost more than $80-#90. Rule of thumb is the best firearm for you is the one you've got. Your familiar and comfortable with it, so you'd be confident. If your not going to get something in the large caliber category take in all the aspects of using a long rifle for home defense i.e. direction your shooting, whose in the next room your shooting towards? In using a .22 for home defense you should take the same precausions as you would a 300 or 45-70, if you miss your target, there's a good chance that round will end up 2, 3 rooms over, if not exiting a window ending up God knows where. With a .22 you may not stop an intruder with one round. You must get to the level of training where under a high stress situation you can quickly get aquisition and place 3-5 rd bursts from say 10-25 meters into a 2 or 3 inch group. Lots of classes provid this kind of training. Once you've mastered this it won't matter what ammunition your using as long as it's a reliable one. At close range you'll loose minimal velocity. Hope this helps.

 

[Faulkner]

For home defense . . . save up and buy another gun that shoots something other than .22 LR.

 

[crofoot629]

Federal bulk pack from Wally World, for sure.

Emory

 

[~tc~]

IMHO, the biggest problem with using a 22LR semi-auto for home defense is the reliability of the ammo - one pull <> one bang every time.

Tweaking what was said above, though, if you are most comfortable and most accurate with a 22 rifle, then that's what you should use.

No matter what caliber you're talking about, there are stories where what should have been a good hit did not put down the bad guy instantly.

 

[~tc~]

The "key" in any gunfight is fast incapacitation of the threat. Shoot to stop. Instant incapacitation is better. This is only caused by severing the central nervous system and the best chance of hitting that is via center of mass shots.

I disagree. Your best chance of a HIT is center of mass. Between all the muscle and organs you're shooting in to, and the relatively easy/common access to body armor, I think a center of mass shot is a low percentage for incapacitation.

Unfortunately, your best chance for incapacitation (neck, eye, etc) are low percentage of hit.

 

[BELT_FED]

if your looking for home defense, save a couple hundred dollars and dont take the chance, buy a shot gun... load it with some number 4s so you dont get to much over pen. and dont go looking for the intruder... if you know some 1 is in your house grab your shot gun crouch behind your bed so you make a very small target and wait for him to come to you.. then there is no shoot out all he sees is the 4 ft of flame as he opens the door... allways do the ambushing never be ambushed... good rule to follow

 

[chuck s]

00 Buck is what ya need for shotgun "home defense." Over penetration of shotgun pellets -- penetration thru the human body and causing damage behind -- is so unlikely as to not warrant discussion. Nor does "over penetration" itself warrant any.

But the gun magazines have to keep feeding this nonsense or we'd stop buying magazines.

-- Chuck

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

00 Buck is what ya need for shotgun "home defense."
-- Chuck

That works for me....

Now... to answer the OP question. IMO, the most mitigating factor (aside from being a .22lr) is will the round go bang. Rimfire is typically not as reliable as centerfire. So.... whatever ammo cycles and fires the most reliably in your rifle will be the best pick.

 

[Tang777]

whatever ammo cycles and fires the most reliably in your rifle will be the best pick.

Very good point.

Well if your lucky the bad guy wont be armed with more than a knife and just see the "m-16/m4" and scare him off. He doesn't need to know its a .22 LR. I know if someone pulled the 15-22 on me when I didn't have firepower, and i had no idea what caliber it was, I would try to get out as quick as possible.

But I agree with the shotgun route as well. and would recommend that.

 

[BELT_FED]

Tang77 is a better man than me, if i catch someone in my house at night.. im not going to take the time to see if he is armed and let him see what im holding when the door opens and i don't know the person the coach gun is going to roar with both barrels then ill grab the phone and the glock on the night stand and call the police.. i will only lay my weapon down when i hear the police pull in.... then ill drop the mag and lay it down ... i refuse to give that kind of person the op. to hurt me or my family cause the next time you may not be home it maybe your wife there by herself or your kids... or if your like me and your family all lives with in a few miles from a another it might be your mom or sister or who evers house next on their liste

 

[DasFriek]

This is my gun collection and only 2 are loaded at all times, The 1911 thats cocked and locked for 24/7 ccw loaded with Corbon 230gr +P hollow points, And the Mossberg 500SPX with 3" mag 15 pellet 00buck.
One round of that shotgun is equal to all the lead in a full 25 round mag in a 15/22 and way more effective.
None of the other guns are loaded as that is just asking for trouble with accidental discharges since there is no reason for me to ever use them in my house, Or outside of it for that matter.

But if a 15/22 is all you own then id load it with Aquila 40gr Hyper velocity round nose. And keep a phone close by and pray the Police are quick.

 

[BeginingOfTheEnd]

Tang77 is a better man than me, if i catch someone in my house at night.. im not going to take the time to see if he is armed and let him see what im holding when the door opens and i don't know the person the coach gun is going to roar with both barrels then ill grab the phone and the glock on the night stand and call the police.. i will only lay my weapon down when i hear the police pull in.... then ill drop the mag and lay it down ... i refuse to give that kind of person the op. to hurt me or my family cause the next time you may not be home it maybe your wife there by herself or your kids... or if your like me and your family all lives with in a few miles from a another it might be your mom or sister or who evers house next on their liste

I hear that!!!

 

[CC83]

When I was a young newlywed. I had a Colt Commander 9mm and a 10/22. The colt was unreliable, so the 10/22 with folding stock was all there was. Loaded it with CCI Stingers (factory mag only).
My biggest issue with rimfire is the reliability of the bullet not the stopping power. You can put a lot of 22s on target, as fast as you can pull the trigger. I never had to test that theory. I don't think I've ever had a Stinger misfire in a otherwise reliable gun, but I'm not 100% sure. I would take a M&P 22 pistol, 15-22, Ruger 10/22, or MKII, loaded with Stingers, over a golf club any day/night. If you can only find cheap 22lr (Thunderbolts) then I would go with the golf club, a misfire might get you killed.

PS. Good score! M&P 15-22 w 3 mags, 1 vfg, and a red dot for $400. Awesome, I love a good deal!

 

[CC83]

Gun site training drywall penetration test.
www.nwlink.com/~josephk/ar15_penetration_tests.html‎

I have no idea what you can use in an apartment. Maybe the S&W Governor w/ hunting shot. Everything else will go through several apartments. I was shocked that a 5.56mm (self defense round) and a 22lr were the only bullets tested that were captured inside the same home they were fired in, and that was after going through two rooms of drywall. 9mm hollow point was captured in the neighbors exterior wall. Every pistol round bigger than a 9mm went on through the neighbors exterior wall and beyond.

 

[stavman11]

I was shot in the hand with a .22 mag and didn't even know it until I looked at it. You'd think it would hurt but I felt nothing at the time.

I was shot in the head in 3rd Grade with a .22 Snake Shot Round... well i Knew I was shot...LOL... but told my Mom I fell out of a tree in Gravel on my head... never went to the Hospital

that Said

I have a 15-22p with 2 mags strapped togther I toyed with as a backup to my XDM9 for home defense.... 50rds would deter most anyone... but My XDM9 with 19rds would for sure do more Damage

If a 15-22 is all ya Got... for sure use It...

But Like Others.... there are Much better choices.....