165gr. 40 S&W Unique Loads

[S&W HE]

Alliant's recipe:
Bullet: 165 gr. Speer GDHP
Primer: CCI 500
Charge: 7.2 gr. Unique
Barrel Length / Velocity: 4" /1064 fps

Unique recipe goal:
Bullet: 165 gr. X-Treme Plated RNFP
Primer: WSP or ?
Charge: ?.? gr. Unique
Barrel Length / Velocity: 4" / 950 fps

What's your Unique 165 gr. load?

 

[rg1]

Only loaded 40 S&W for a couple years. I've tried Unique, AA#5, Power Pistol and Win Super Field. Unique loads with 165 jacketed FMJ-FP, Rainier 165 plated FP's using CCI 500 primers shows in my 4.1" G23:
165 FMJ-FP---Unique 6.0 for approx. 1008 fps
165 Rainier plated FP----Unique 6.1 grains 1013 fps
Alliant's max data with Gold Dot bullets is warm and I don't want to work up to that level in 9mm or 40 S&W using GD bullets in multi-fired and mixed brand cases. I believe you'll reach a goal of 950 FPS with plated 165 bullets at 5.8-6.1 grains of Unique. Your results may differ in your gun with your components? I went as low as 5.7 grains with 165 FMJ-FP's with no issues cycling or feeding in my pistol or carbine rifle.

 

[Alk8944]

If you don't have a chronograph you are only guessing! My bet is that the Alliant listed load will develop a velocity pretty close to the 950 FPS hat you are looking for when fired from an actual pistol instead of a Universal receiver and test barrel. Most "book" velocities are quite optimistic compared to actual results from a firearm. There will also be some difference depending on whether the bullet is plated or has a drawn jacket.

That said, the only 165 bullet I have loaded is the Gold Dot. Here is what my records show with Unique and shot from my "Shorty-Forty", which is 3 1/2":

165 GDHP
WSP
7.1 gr. Unique
1028 FPS

165 GDHP
WSP
6.4 gr. Unique
935 FPS

LOA for both was 1.125" and case was Winchester.

A bit of technical mumbo-jumbo for you. If you want to calculate a load for a specific velocity use this formula. I will use the known values developed from my own chronograph results so you can see how close it comes out!:

Desired velocity / known velocity (935/1028) = .909 x 7.1 gr. = 6.45 gr. for 935 FPS. Pretty close, isn't it!!!

For the figures you show from Alliant:

950/1064 = .892 x 7.2 gr. = 6.42 gr. Which is still pretty close to what I had for actual chronograph data.

15 FPS is very little and could go either way, and depends on your barrel length and other variables. Your 4" barrel will likely make the difference between 935 and 950 FPS!

Either way the answer to your question is 6.4 - 6.5 gr. Unique. But you are still guessing without a chronograph!

This is a very simple calculation and it always surprises me that so few have the slightest idea how it works! It will always be quite close as long as velocity is the only variable, and you have a known velocity to start with.

 

[Nevada Ed]

This should be a sticky since everyone can use it........
you can get data on reduced loas by going to:

Handload.com
go to articles.........
on left side, drop down to Calculations.........
at the bottom there will be "Reduced Loads" .............

to give you help finding a load.

Enjoy.

 

[S&W HE]

Tested this Unique recipe today:
Bullet: 165 gr. X-Treme Plated RNFP - 1.125" OAL
Primer: Federal 200 (Magnum)
Charge: 6.8 gr. Unique
Pistol: Para P-16 Limited
Barrel Length: 5"
Chronographed Ave. Velocity: 1,160 fps

Plan to test 6.5 gr. Unique tomorrow

 

[sfpd34]

I am kinda new to hand loading. I tried 6 grains of unique with a 180 extreme plated RNFP and it was eratic and pretty stiff. I backed it off to 5.5 grains and it is accurate and nice to shoot. I do not have a Chrono but I need to get one !

 

[fredj338]

Desired velocity / known velocity (935/1028) = .909 x 7.1 gr. = 6.45 gr. for 935 FPS. Pretty close, isn't it!!!

For the figures you show from Alliant:

950/1064 = .892 x 7.2 gr. = 6.42 gr. Which is still pretty close to what I had for actual chronograph data.

15 FPS is very little and could go either way, and depends on your barrel length and other variables. Your 4" barrel will likely make the difference between 935 and 950 FPS!

Either way the answer to your question is 6.4 - 6.5 gr. Unique. But you are still guessing without a chronograph!

This is a very simple calculation and it always surprises me that so few have the slightest idea how it works! It will always be quite close as long as velocity is the only variable, and you have a known velocity to start with.

That is the issue though, you need to know the vel & there are lots of variables in getting a given vel.
Berry's 165gr FP
6.0gr Unique
Cci sp
Oal=1.130" for 975fps in my 1st gen 4006
Same load with a 165gr RGS went 951fps.
Same load with 170gr lfp went 1030fps.

 

[Rule3]

Desired velocity / known velocity (935/1028) = .909 x 7.1 gr. = 6.45 gr. for 935 FPS. Pretty close, isn't it!!!

.

Pretty close only counts with horseshoes and hand grenades

Taking a percentage is not precise enough with powders especially those with different burn rates, it is not completely linear, plus as Fred mentions there are many other variables at play.

 

[Rule3]

This should be a sticky since everyone can use it........
you can get data on reduced loas by going to:

Handload.com
go to articles.........
on left side, drop down to Calculations.........
at the bottom there will be "Reduced Loads" .............

to give you help finding a load.

Enjoy.

Link did not work for me? You mean this one?

Reduced Load Calculator

 

[Nevada Ed]

Yes Sir!!

That's your bippy .............

 

[forestswin]

Alk's simple calculation works pretty good
I compared it to some of my chronographed data and it came up with charge weights fairly close to the actual charge weights used.

the data is for 158 grain SWC, with 12.8 grains to 14 grains of 2400 in 0.2 grain increments shot in a 686-6 inch at 25 yards rested

charge weight, velocity, ES, SD and GS (group size) are all given

thanks for sharing

 

[S&W HE]

Tested this Unique recipe today:
Bullet: 165 gr. X-Treme Plated RNFP - 1.125" OAL
Primer: Federal 200 (Magnum)
Charge: 6.8 gr. Unique
Pistol: Para P-16 Limited
Barrel Length: 5"
Chronographed Ave. Velocity: 1,160 fps

Tested these Unique recipes today:

6.6 gr. Unique - 1,142 fps
6.4 gr. Unique - 1,126 fps

 

[Rule3]

Alk's simple calculation works pretty good
I compared it to some of my chronographed data and it came up with charge weights fairly close to the actual charge weights used.

the data is for 158 grain SWC, with 12.8 grains to 14 grains of 2400 in 0.2 grain increments shot in a 686-6 inch at 25 yards rested

charge weight, velocity, ES, SD and GS (group size) are all given

thanks for sharing

Forest, that is really nice work thanks for taking the time to show the math. Good that you still work with numbers, I myself have forgotten the majority of it. Use it or lose it.

 

[Road_Clam]

Per the data you guys like to push those velocities. I've been loading .40 s&w for a few years now and i've tested Unique and WST and my Glock G22 and my G35 both seem to show the best consistency around 900 fps. I've settled on 5.4 gr of Unique with the 180's and 5.6 gr. with 165'a as my go to loads. Both these loads get me right around 920 fps. I also chrono'd factory Winchester white box 165's and they tested at about 1050 fps. My Glocks get very "snappy" shooting hotter loads so I prefer to run more mild loads. My Glocks have NO mercy for my amateur trigger pull !

 

[SoMoMule]

WOW, thanks for the work. I've looked all over for this exact info. I started with the Alliant data and loaded 155gr Ranier w/7.2 gr of Unique, and the 165gr Ranier w/6.5 gr. CCI's, AOL 1.125. Don't have a Chrono but they felt close to factory target/range ammo. After all the searching I did I was afraid they were too hot. Getting ready to load some X-Treme Plated 165gr RNFP, think I'll back off a little and try a 6.0 gr load for every day target work. I thought I was safe backing off the max load 10% w/the GDHP data, this confirms my suspicion. Shooting 5" M&P Pro & G4-G23.
THANKS AGAIN

 

[Alk8944]

Pretty close only counts with horseshoes and hand grenades

Taking a percentage is not precise enough with powders especially those with different burn rates, it is not completely linear, plus as Fred mentions there are many other variables at play.

Obviously you are one of those who labor under the misapprehension that anyone who publishes reloading manuals, whether it is a powder maker, bullet manufacturer or a bullet mold maker, actually shoots every load they list in their manuals! They do not! They fire often only one load to establish base velocity and pressure and then extrapolate/interpolate from that base figure! Why do you think Sierra shows velocities in 100 FPS increments? Or just why many manuals reduce the maximum load by exactly 10% to arrive at the starting load?

Go back and READ my original post, and those of others who conformed from their own results that it works! Contrary to what you stated most propellants are linear to a great extent. You infer that in some way interpolating a load between a published minimum/maximum could be some way dangerous! This is absolute BS!!!!

And, if you had READ my original post you would have seen that I said absolutely nothing about making estimates between propellants of different burning rates! All I said referred strictly to specific powders the OP asked about, and was supported by chronographed data IN MY GUN! There was a disclaimer inferred about his barrel length varying from mine. AND, the "Close Enough" only referred to the velocity estimate calculated by the formula. There was no mention of pressure whatsoever, but do you really believe that reducing a load does anything other than reducing velocity and pressure at the same time?

And, a final disclaimer. The formula shown is truly specific to single-base propellants. Double-base propellants are not strictly as linear in their performance as single-base, but, again, close enough when interpolating reduced loads. The formula referenced is not mine, it came from sources published by Dupont many years ago. Maybe you would like to argue that the technicians and engineers at Dupont don't/didn't know what they were talking about!!!!!!!!!!

Unfortunately your opinion used to be something I respected, but no longer!

 

[Rule3]

Gee what took you so long? I am really crushed.

Yes your "formula" works withing the bounds of the known tested powder charge.

Many knowledgeable members on other forums disagree with your claim of powder linearity. Yes, it can be linear in a short section of powder loads, any curve can have a small section of the line that is somewhat straight.

Over the whole pressure cure it is not.

 

[SoMoMule]

I have both the X-Treme 165 and Rainer 165. I measured both and found the Rainer to be .572 in length and the X-Treme to be .532 and using an AOL of 1.125 for both that means I have .040 "setback" built in using the Rainers. If that represents 3% case volume should I reduce the load 3%. I also noticed S&W HE used mag primers in his testing. Does this in itself raise pressures and velocity? Trying to use the Alliant data as a start I'm short one piece of info, how long is the GDHP? I couldn't find it in Speers data.