17-3 cylinder indexing

Toter

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I have a 17-3 that I purchased new in the 70s. It has had a lot of rounds through it and is still one of my favorites to shoot. I noticed the other day when cleaning it, that in double action, one of the cylinders barely locks in place before the hammer falls. All the other cylinders lock well before hammer fall. Is this considered carry-up, and is it determined by the shape/condition of the ratchet for that cylinder? What would be the corrective steps for this?
Appreciate any info from the Smiths here.
 
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Several options to correct the carry up on that chamber / ratchet is first, clean it very good to be sure there is not an obstruction, second is to peen the ratchet so it locks quicker and next would be to just leave it alone until it stops locking that chamber and then install an over sized hand and fit it to all the ratchets.
 
DETAILED CARRY UP REPAIR:

Yes, you have a "carry up" problem. You can fix it faster than you can read the explanation and 'how-to' below w/o any new parts.

The issue is a failure to "Carry Up". In other words the hand does not carry the cyl far enough to lock up within the normal cycle distance of the hammer travel. Usually it doesn't show up in DA shooting because of the momentum of the faster cyl rotation.

Based on your assessment and comments, I believe Pat Sweeney's "Gunsmithing Pistols & Revolvers", 2nd Ed.(2004), pp.219-220 is the most sensible, perfectly good solution, what I would do and have done many times, what S&W factory trained smiths have done in similar situations, and also what members on this forum have done successfully after reading about it, which is:

Peening the ratchet tooth (or teeth) to correct timing/cyl 'carry up' is simple.
Replacing and fitting a new hand may fix your problem and may not, but the hand is not likely needed or at fault. It's the harder part compared to the cyl teeth.

The flat surfaces of the teeth facing you when looking at the rear face of the cyl are where to peen. The tooth at about 3 o'clock is the next to be engaged by the hand (when cyl is closed) to advance the chamber to the right of the one at 12 o'clock, into firing position. The cylinder turns counterclockwise so the hand will engage the 'bottom side' of that tooth. The flat surface facing you is where to peen, on the edge right above the bottom side of the tooth. No need to take the gun apart at all. I lay the gun on a padded surface on its right side, muzzle pointing to the left (I'm right handed) with cyl propped open with a rolled up shop cloth.

If you're worried about force to the yoke and frame, I'm afraid that you're envisioning TAPPING TOO HARD. Just a very light peen with a small hammer and flat tip punch is all that's needed to 'upset' the metal. The ratchet teeth are not hardened! This takes finesse, not force.

And by laying the gun on a padded surface without restraint as I described, it's allowed to move when the punch is tapped with the hammer, mitigating any force to the yoke and frame.

You may not even see the metal 'upset' from tapping the punch and it can be enough to solve the problem. One light tap with a small light hammer and flat face punch then close the cylinder and try it. If the cylinder doesn't 'carry up' or even if it does C/U but still has too much 'looseness' when fully cocked, give the tooth another tap. You can do all six teeth, or just others where there's looseness with the chamber in firing position when the hammer is cocked.

Rough handling/constant double action rapid fire can accelerate the teeth deformation but it did not happen overnight, and now you have another 20+ years of shooting before it'll need anything more, depending of course on how much you shoot the gun. I've never had to do the same gun twice.

If you peen too much and the cylinder carries up too far that puts cocking the hammer in a bind or the bolt 'jumps' out of the cyl notch, not a problem, peen the surface that the hand contacts and push it back.

I would not put up with a carry up issue especially when it's so simple to fix.

Hope this helps you,
 
Jim,

Thanks so much for your time and the detailed explanation. I will give this a very careful try. I assume that this adjustment and cylinder lockup examination should be done with empty cases in the chambers.

Ed
 
… I noticed the other day when cleaning it, that in double action, one of the cylinders barely locks in place before the hammer falls. All the other cylinders lock well before hammer fall.
Before you start going at the ratchet with a hammer and punch, you should really check it with fired cases in the chambers. A slight amount of play between the extractor star and the cylinder can create the impression that there's a problem. If it's not shaving lead and functioning fine, I wouldn't do anything.
 
Jim,

Thanks so much for your time and the detailed explanation. I will give this a very careful try. I assume that this adjustment and cylinder lockup examination should be done with empty cases in the chambers.

Ed

You're welcome Ed.

No, you don't need empty cases in the chambers for the adjustment. They won't make any difference.

You can try the empty cases for examination, but I've never seen that make any difference. If anything the empty cases in the chambers can push the cyl forward slightly and might make the insufficient carry up slightly worse, but let us know what you find.

Once you fix it, it'll be a very rewarding experience because it's so simple to do.
 
Just me, I don't peen any ratchets of .357 and higher. I definitely think when you get into the larger more powerful cartridges you need to use a thicker hand and dress the ratchet faces to fit. This at least gives me more confidence that it is a lasting repair in which the revolver will stay in carry-up. I may be overly careful but would rather error on the side of safety.......
 
The caliber really doesn't make any difference. Or involve safety no matter how carry up is corrected, as long as it is corrected.

The ratchet teeth take many hours of shooting to cause a carry up issue. Once it's corrected it'll require many more hours of shooting before needing adjustment again in my experience.
 
I hear what you are saying Hondo, but I just have a negative viewpoint on peening. Years ago a gunsmith tried to convince me that peening the metal back in on a a very sloppy cylinder stop window would tighten the stop to like new performance. Guess what? after about 50 rounds it was back to as sloppy as it was before. Fitting an oversize stop fixed it completely and I guess this is why I feel the way I do about wanting to fit an oversize hand. (maybe this is an entirely different issue un-related to ratchet peening?) My point is there is a-lot of vibration in the cylinder when fired (especially with magnum calibers) and I can't believe peened metal is as solid as a properly fit ratchet with the hand. You are undoubtedly more savvy about this process than me but I will stay with what I am more comfortable with.
 
I can see where a replacement hand would be the proper fix if multiple cylinders were really close to not locking, but the others all lock consistently well before hammer fall. Upon inspection, the ratchet for the tardy cylinder looks a little chewed compared to the rest. I will try peening that ratchet. It is a 22 rimfire, no magnum here.
 
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