170 Keith in 357 Magnum

[41special]

Have new Starline brass a small Winchester primers looking for loads in the 1000 fps category

Thinking 2400 or HS-6 for my propellent

Anyone?

 

[Yendor 1]

2400 isn’t going to be optimal for a mid range load. You won’t get a complete burn.

I’ve never burned HS6. And even if I did, what works in my gun might not in yours.

So get out your chronograph, start out low until you get the velocity you want. Then you have the arduous task of figuring out if that load shoots good in your gun.

My newish 686 Plus shoots the Lyman 170 well with A#9, but run the same velocity with 2400 and accuracy goes away. Weird, right?

My light 357 load is 5.5g 231with a 158 or 170 for close to 1000 in a 4 inch 686. That shoots pretty good. But 14g of 2400, which is warmish, 1250 fps, shoots better. Go figure.

Guns don’t read rule books.

As always, You
don’t know if you don’t chrono.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

My standard .357 load for many years is my cast 170 gr SWC pushed by 13,5 grs of #2400.......Not max but will kill what needs killin.....Mostly deerr.

 

[M29since14]

You should be able to do around 1000 fps with almost any powder from Bullseye or AA2 on up through 2400. 231 likely would serve you well, but really the only way to know what is most accurate is to try several powders and see.

Super Field might be a good choice. It’s one powder I’ve been meaning to test in this type of load, mainly because I’ve got quite a bit of it, but haven’t gotten to it.

If unburned powder in your barrel concerns you, you’ll get that with both HS6 and 2400. That kind of thing never concerned me much as long as I was getting the velocity and accuracy I wanted.

 

[rockquarry]

According to my notes, 11 grs. #2400 will give a muzzle velocity of 1050 fps from a 6" barrel (not sure if this was a Python or Model 27). I wouldn't use less than 11 grains in a .357 case with the #358429 bullet.

 

[cowboy4evr]

I have been using Winchester Super field over 10 yrs . My load in a 357 case and 173 gr K bullet is 7.5 grains . That load is close in velocity to what you are looking for . A lot depends on your gun , chronograph , heat index , etc etc . HS 6 is a great powder but it really needs a magnum primer , 2400 --- not so much .

 

[Riposte1]

Have new Starline brass a small Winchester primers looking for loads in the 1000 fps category

Thinking 2400 or HS-6 for my propellent

Anyone?

2400 might work but likes a bit more pressure to burn clean - HS6 should do fine as would Universal and, I suspect, Longshot though I have not tried that in .357 (it does seem to burn about like old Hercules Unique).

Riposte

 

[rockquarry]

I found HS-6 to be the premier "niche" powder. I did a lot of load development with this powder a few years back. I tried it in a variety of handgun chamberings with cast bullets. While I developed some accurate loads, they were few in comparison with other powders. I don't recall any accurate loads in .357 but would have to review notes to verify.

Magnum primers are usually recommended with HS-6 and it allegedly performs best at near max pressures. I did primer comparisons and found no differences. Accuracy was sometimes good with lower level charges. I wanted this powder to work for me because it provides very good velocity in many cartridges with non-plusP pressures.

I finished an 8 lb. keg a couple of years ago and won't be buying any more.

 

[cowboy4evr]

My luck with HS6 has been completely opposite from the post above . In a 357 case I used 9.3 grains HS6 with a 158 gr cast bullet was very vey accurate . I had excellent results in other magnums as well . In 45 colt it delivered stellar performance . I found magnum primers gave better performance , Others may have different results .
Speaking of HS6 , I have heard a rumor that Hodgdon is dropping it . It is supposedly going to be combined with Accurate #5 . Bottles with still say HS6 , but filled with Ac#5 . True or not I don't know for sure .

 

[M29since14]

Considering the two powders don’t bear any physical resemblance at all, that seems odd, to say the least!

In shotguns (28 gauge, mainly) the direct replacement for HS6 is Universal. It’s very hard, if not impossible, to come by right now. I do see HS6 here and there. I hope the brain trust at Hodgdon has not decided to eliminate both.

 

[rockquarry]

Another comment about HS-6 that I forgot to mention in my earlier post...I no longer load .45 Colt and got rid of my two S&W revolvers and a Winchester carbine, all guns I'd had for many years and fired extensively with cast loads. I used the popular Unique load of 8 - 9 grs. for a long time. Tried a stout load of HS-6 with the Lyman #4545424 260 grain bullet. Velocity was about the same as the Unique load but accuracy was probably the best I've seen in the .45 Colt.

HS-6 does have good points, though limited they may be.

Pretty much lost all interest in the .45 Colt, much preferring the .44 Special these days.

 

[Chuck Edwards]

I'm using six grains of Unique under a 170-grain LSWC in .38 Special brass. It replicates the .38/44 Heavy Duty load from back in the day, running ~1070 fps from a 4" revolver. It's my "woods load" specifically for my 28-2.

Note that if you're going to use the traditional 170-grain Keith LSWC, loading it in .357 Magnum brass and crimping it in the crimp groove will produce rounds too long to work in N frames, though they're fine in K and L frames. If you want to use .357 brass in an N frame, you'll need to seat it to crimp over the front driving band.

 

[Forrest r]

1000fps with that bullet is child's play almost any powder in a 357mag case.

I wouldn't waste 2400 on such a light plinking load.

HS-6, I don't have enough experience with to say one way or the other. I will say it might not be the best powder for a small/light load simply because hs-6 has known ignition issues. Light loads tend to make matters worse.

 

[Sebago Son]

Elmer Keith suggested a load to me in 1975. I have used it in matches and in the field ever since.... 7.0 grains of Unique under the Lyman 358429 in a Magnum case sparked by a CCI small pistol, standard pressure primer. If shooting in a S&W N-frame with the short cylinder you crimp the case over the front edge of the driving band.

 

[biku324]

I like 6.0 to 6.5 grains of Longshot for 170 grain lead swc. From a 4" barrel you should get 950 to 1050 fish. The 6.5 grain load burns a tiny bit cleaner.

 

[30calflash]

I tried 170 and 158 grain cast in my 586, trying to duplicate the 38-44 loading. Using +P level loads and tweaking them a little got good accuracy but never hit 1000 fps from the 4" barrel.

Check some manuals, the Lee early versions have a lot of powder loads to try and the starting level loads are near that velocity, IIRC. Lyman manual another good place to go.

 

[Chuck Edwards]

The 38/44 load I noted above came from an old Lyman/Ideal loading manual. I don't doubt that it's above current .38 +P level. It was listed as for "heavy frame revolvers only". I'm pretty sure it's a good bit below .357 Magnum pressures.

 

[max503]

I'm using six grains of Unique under a 170-grain LSWC in .38 Special brass. It replicates the .38/44 Heavy Duty load from back in the day, running ~1070 fps from a 4" revolver. It's my "woods load" specifically for my 28-2.

Note that if you're going to use the traditional 170-grain Keith LSWC, loading it in .357 Magnum brass and crimping it in the crimp groove will produce rounds too long to work in N frames, though they're fine in K and L frames. If you want to use .357 brass in an N frame, you'll need to seat it to crimp over the front driving band.

I tried a similar load once in my Model 15. It shot ok and it was fun to generate all that power - but I don't encounter many bears here in Illinois and I have more appropriate guns available for deer. No need to put excess wear on my beloved Combat Masterpiece.

 

[rwsmith]

You should be able to do around 1000 fps with almost any powder from Bullseye or AA2 on up through 2400. 231 likely would serve you well, but really the only way to know what is most accurate is to try several powders and see.

Super Field might be a good choice. It’s one powder I’ve been meaning to test in this type of load, mainly because I’ve got quite a bit of it, but haven’t gotten to it.

If unburned powder in your barrel concerns you, you’ll get that with both HS6 and 2400. That kind of thing never concerned me much as long as I was getting the velocity and accuracy I wanted.

Agreed. A starting load of Titegroup will get that velocity. I get yellow/gold dust left over shooting 2400. Like you say, not the best for a load that light.

 

[gwpercle]

Here is data from Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th edition
357 mag. - handgun - 170 gr , cast SWC bullet #358429
2400 powder

Starting Load - 9.7 grs. @ 879 fps
Maximum Load - 13.5 grs. @1242 fps

I would start in the middle ... 11.0 grs 2400 ...
this will be right around 1000 fps for a Mid-Range load .

Nothing wrong with 2400 and 1000 fps loads ...
if you got 2400 ... Choot It !
Gary

 

[SLT223]

Has anyone tried this bullet with Hodgdon's max recommended load of 15.5gr of H110?

 

[Forrest r]

2400 doesn't do well in low pressure loads. Try the "Lyman" loads listed above and see just how hot of a load you need to get the cases to seal (no soot on 1 side of the case). And the unburnt kernels of powder go away.

FWIW:
11.0gr of 2400 pushing a 358492 bullet is a common 33/44 load that produces 27,000psi/28,000psi. But that's in a 38spl case.
I've ran 10.0gr of 2400 and that 358429 bullet in 38spl cases (P+ loads in a snubnosed 38spl) and that load left unburnt powder everywhere even with 2 different mag primers. 2400 isn't supposed to need mag primers.

 

[rockquarry]

2400 doesn't do well in low pressure loads. Try the "Lyman" loads listed above and see just how hot of a load you need to get the cases to seal (no soot on 1 side of the case). And the unburnt kernels of powder go away.

FWIW:
11.0gr of 2400 pushing a 358492 bullet is a common 33/44 load that produces 27,000psi/28,000psi. But that's in a 38spl case.
I've ran 10.0gr of 2400 and that 358429 bullet in 38spl cases (P+ loads in a snubnosed 38spl) and that load left unburnt powder everywhere even with 2 different mag primers. 2400 isn't supposed to need mag primers.

I've used both standard and magnum primers with #2400 in the .357 Magnum off and on for decades and never saw any difference. I've pretty much stuck with CCI-500 standard primers for the last twenty years or so. The #358429 is not my favorite .357 bullet but it's still a good choice. 12 grs. #2400 is a good place to start; little or no unburnt powder, decent accuracy, and about 1200 fps from a 6" barrel.