180grs in Scandium Snubby

[Fritz007]

Hello,

Hodgdon lists the following load:

180grs Nosler Partition before 15.0grs Lil'Gun (this is the maxload).

Are there any reasons why not to use this in a 340 sc (scandium J-Frame)?

Can I use this load with 180grs Remingtion SJHP?

Thanks for your advice,
Fritz

 

[Rule3]

Ochy Momma!

I have no idea but that sounds like a handful in a scandium.

 

[Skip Sackett]

No thanks!

Yeah, and some folks think it's OK to bungee jump off of the Royal Gorge Bridge too, but not me, dude!

If you own a 357Mag revolver, it should shoot ANY modern 357Mag load.

May I suggest a shooting glove when you do! You'll need it if you shoot more than 5 of them!

Make sure you work up to it and only load a couple of cylinders full to start with, you may want to stop after just a few. Don't want to have a bunch of them to pull!

Have fun!

 

[canoe on the yukon]

Hello,

Hodgdon lists the following load:

180grs Nosler Partition before 15.0grs Lil'Gun (this is the maxload).

Are there any reasons why not to use this in a 340 sc (scandium J-Frame)?

Can I use this load with 180grs Remingtion SJHP?

Thanks for your advice,
Fritz

It's acheivable but I'm not sure why you'd want to.The velocity will be too low to allow much expansion(if any)for a bullet of that weight out of a snubby.If penetration is the goal,you'd probably be better off with a hard cast 160.

If you're determined to do it anyway,I'd suggest you use a heavy crimp to keep bullets from being pulled from the effect of the recoil.

 

[Treeman]

.....and heavy bulletpull is essential to good performance with lil'gun in revolvers.

 

[pinkymingeo]

My experience with LilGun in 357 revolvers is that you're better off throwing rocks. I have been underwhelmed by chrono results, but have only used 158gr bullets. They say LG is better with heavier projectiles, so who knows? In my Ti/scan snubbies I shoot a 125gr jsp at 940fps. Easy, even fun to shoot, so I do it a lot and have gotten pretty good with those little guns. Plus, I have no doubt that those bullets will make two holes in anything I shoot with them. If I take my 340PD moose hunting maybe I'll try 180's, but until then I'm content.

 

[Fritz007]

Thanks for your contributions!

Let me add why I am after this load. I am hunting boar and the gun is only used in rare cases when there are wounded animals. If they are immobilized this load is clear overdose. But in case they are still mobile, you might want to have a gun loaded with good medicine with you. They will be full of adrenaline. BTW in the first place the rifle is the way to go for. The snubby is just the backup for the cases that never happen.

That is why I want maximal sectional density and maximal power. And a gun you are willing to carry though you don't need it.

Any suggestions on what will be better than the suggested load?

Thanks,
Fritz

 

[Steve C]

First of all you don't just slap together a max load. You need to work up to the max charge looking for pressure signs, this is specially important when using different components than that listed in the puplished data. There are no "safe" shortcuts.

Start load according to Hodgdon is 13.0gr. Load up a few rounds at each charge wt to test from 13.0 to 15.0grs at perhaps 0.4gr increments. Then shoot in your gun and look for pressure signs as you shoot subseqtly higher charges. With a scandium pistol it can be painful but it will answer your question.

 

[Fritz007]

First of all you don't just slap together a max load. You need to work up to the max charge looking for pressure signs, this is specially important when using different components than that listed in the puplished data. There are no "safe" shortcuts.

Start load according to Hodgdon is 13.0gr. Load up a few rounds at each charge wt to test from 13.0 to 15.0grs at perhaps 0.4gr increments. Then shoot in your gun and look for pressure signs as you shoot subseqtly higher charges. With a scandium pistol it can be painful but it will answer your question.

Steve you are perfectly right, thank you for this.

The experience I am asking for is somewhat else. For example:
- It is not wise to use a bullet to light in this gun as the powder will burn largely in the barrel an burn the frame. So is there an comparable danger with heavy bullets?
- Has anybody chronographed say 158gr against 180gr and can say which one will yield more energy. In theory the 180gr should be better as it rests longer in the barrel and burns more powder inside.
- Is Lil'Gun a good choice? I've choosen it for my 6" 357mag because it is slow. Wouldn't it be a good idea to choose something more on the offensive side?

Thank you,
Fritz

 

[Steve C]

Is Lil'Gun a good choice? I've choosen it for my 6" 357mag because it is slow. Wouldn't it be a good idea to choose something more on the offensive side?

While I have never used Lil'Gun I've read that it can cause rapid barrel erosion. It may not be the best powder for your application. Google "lil'gun barrel erosion" and read some of the resulting discussions. You may want to use a faster powder with any bullet you select.

Out of a 2" short barrel you're not going to drive a heavy bullet much faster than 1,000 fps, Hodgdon's velocity data is from 10" test barrels. You can see what barrel length they use if you select the "print" option for a single load using their website.

 

[Paul105]

Here's some chrono data from 1 7/8" S&W 340

Haven't loaded the 180gr Rem (or Horn) Jacket .357 bullet. The frist load listed below is a hard cast lead bullet from Beartooth Bullets. The last load listed is the Federal Cast Core factory load.


185 gr LFNGC, 14.7gr Lil'Gun, 1022 fps
158 gr CSWC, 13.5gr H-2400, 1074 fps
158 gr JHP - XTP, 13.5gr H-2400, 1009 fps
158 gr LSWHP +P, .38gr Rem Fact, 752 fps
130 gr FMJRN, .38gr Am Eagle, 680
130 gr Hydra-Shok, .357gr Fed Fact, 1159 fps
180 gr LWFN, .357gr Fed Fact, 905 fps

FWIW,

Paul

 

[Fritz007]

185 gr LFNGC, 14.7gr Lil'Gun, 1022 fps

Paul, me I did load and shoot 13.5gr and 14gr before a 180gr cast bullet.

In my Ruger GP160 I even went up to 15.5gr without noticing either any signs of overpressure nor feeling a problem in handling the gun. Will chronograph these loads next week.

But in the SC340 even the "mild" 13.5gr and 14gr turned out to be unshootable for me. Thus my question to you, how you manage to tame this little beast.

With factory loads my grip is OK, but with this load it is definitly shown to be inappropriate. Any hints?

Thx,
Fritz

 

[Spotteddog]

Pachy's with the covered back strap. A gel filled shooting glove.
And Naproxen Sodium.

(EDIT)
BTW, with the economy being in the toilet as Chris (Yul Brynner in The Magnificent 7) said
"men are cheaper than guns". I'd suggest working up your loads and seeking out a male just entering puberty to try them out for you. Someone will put the video on You Tube and you'll be a millionaire!

 

[Paul105]

Paul, me I did load and shoot 13.5gr and 14gr before a 180gr cast bullet.

In my Ruger GP160 I even went up to 15.5gr without noticing either any signs of overpressure nor feeling a problem in handling the gun. Will chronograph these loads next week.

But in the SC340 even the "mild" 13.5gr and 14gr turned out to be unshootable for me. Thus my question to you, how you manage to tame this little beast.
Thx,

With factory loads my grip is OK, but with this load it is definitly shown to be inappropriate. Any hints?
Fritz

I can't shoot the gun with the factory Hogue Bantams that came with the gun. I split the web of my hand at the base of my thumb with 135gr Fed Factory .357s -- took a couple of stitches to repair.

My 340 now has a set of Crimpson Trace laser grips (the Pachmyr Gripper Decellerator's are the most comfortable) that work OK for me.

You need to experiment on how you hold the gun. If you hold it high, it pounds the web of your hand. If you hold it so that the grip is lower and in the palm of your hand, the recoil is less painful, but your trigger finger may get hammered (for me this works best). Also, the harder you hold the gun (the more you try to fight the recoil), the worse the pain. Play with various grips positions/holds and loads until you find the combination that works for you.

Here's a picture of my NY reload (340 with the Crimpson Trace Grips):

Paul

 

[Fritz007]

Thanks for the input. Went for a Hogue Monogrip 60000. And did modify my griping technique according to what I learned from a Miculek video about the S&W 500: Grip low and don't stretch the arms, so that the gun can move up and backwards, without me loosing my grip. This way it is fun to shoot.

Paul105, why did you load 14,7grs of LilGun? Did you try to avoid the transsonic zone? Me, with 15grs of LilGun (still not chronographed that load, sorry), I get at 25 meters strange long wholes. Precision still OK. Same ammo with my Ruger GP161 and everything looks as usual, i.e. round wholes are punched in the paper.

BTW did change the bullet to Remington SJHP 180gr before 15grs of LilGun with CCI SPM.

Fritz

 

[Paul105]

Paul105, why did you load 14,7grs of LilGun?
Fritz

RCBS Little Dandy rotor closest to 15.0gr.

Paul

 

[Fritz007]

OK Paul105. Already started to develop kind of inferiority complex as I supposed you developed the load in 1/10 of a grain steps ;-) Me I started about the minimum load as given by Hodgdon and approached the maximum load in half a grain steps.

Given your 1022fps for a 185grs bullet before 14,7grs Lil'Gun, I suppose my load to be in the transsonic zone. Have only 180grs before 15grs of Lil'Gun and this with a really firm crimp (Lee Factory Crimp). This would explain the strange long holes. Chronographed results to come.

Thanks,
Fritz

 

[Fritz007]

Just to give you an idea what I suppose to have happend:

External ballistics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The instability in the transsonic zone combined with the presumably imperfect stabilization of the heavy for the caliber bullet (Bullet is for 357 Maximum, not Magnum) causes the bullet to tumble at 25m.

Fritz