19-3 Problems on the Range. Misfires and won't eject. Help please. **Update**

[peppercorn]

I took my, new to me, used, 19-3 to the range today for the first time.
On my first round of six I had two misfires. I waited, unloaded and immediately noticed that the primers weren't heavily dented when compared to my wife's model 60 which was shooting the same ammunition, .38 special wadcutters.
I reloaded and had one misfire in the next round.
Again the model 60 continued to cycle the same ammo without a hickup.
Closer inspection of the miss fire rounds revealed the primers to be lightly dented compared to those fired by the model 60 which put a fairly distinct 'punch' in the center of the primer. Actually all of them seemed to be lightly touched, both fired and misfired.

I then moved to .357 ammo, in this case Magtech 158 gr. SJSP.
Interetingly I had no miss fires but the shells wouldn't eject.
I had to bang the ejector rod on the bench to get the shells to eject from the cylinder.
I then loaded the Magnum ammo in the model 60. It cycled all five and ejected them easily.
I did this again with both guns and had the same results each time. No miss fires but they wouldn't eject from the 19 without a good bang on the bench.

Any and all input/ideas and or direction would be appreciated.

Mods, if this is in the wrong section please move. I am new to the forum and still finding my way around here.

Full Power .357

 

[scooter123]

Light primer strikes, check to make sure the strain screw is fully tightened down. BTW, that is the screw on the lower front of the grip frame and some grip may cover it. If you find it's fully tight, next step is to order another strain screw. If that doesn't fix the problem you may have to replace the mainspring.

Difficulty chambering 357 Magnums and difficult extraction, most likely you left a carbon ring in the chambers with that 38 spl. I've found that when this happens 2 or 3 cylinders of the Magnums will pulverize that carbon and the problem will go away.

 

[peppercorn]

Light primer strikes, check to make sure the strain screw is fully tightened down. BTW, that is the screw on the lower front of the grip frame and some grip may cover it. If you find it's fully tight, next step is to order another strain screw. If that doesn't fix the problem you may have to replace the mainspring.

Difficulty chambering 357 Magnums and difficult extraction, most likely you left a carbon ring in the chambers with that 38 spl. I've found that when this happens 2 or 3 cylinders of the Magnums will pulverize that carbon and the problem will go away.

I will check that screw tonight. Thank you.
The other thing you mention, about the gas ring, makes sense except for the fact that the model sixty was also going from .38 special to magnums without the same issue.

 

[peppercorn]

OK, the screw, located at the base of the front grip strap(?) excuse my lack of anatomical nomenclature), the strain screw, was fully tight. I had to remove the grips and it is the screw that touches the spring, right?
Also, why would it have successfully have fired ALL of the Magnum rounds? I futher inspected the Magnum cases and they show a deeper primer strike than the .38 specials.

 

[scooter123]

Were you using the same 38 caliber ammo in both guns. I ask because I've found Winchester White Box to be the most problematic for this issue.

The other possibility is poor finish on your model 19 but I'd try a different ammo before considering honing the chambers, if you make them oversize they'll stay oversize until you get a new cylinder.

BTW, I have a simple rule when approaching something like chamber finish, that is to try everything else before removing steel from a machined surface. As for why, I've just never been able to get my material putter backer working.

 

[peppercorn]

Yes, exact same ammo. Both guns were cleaned prior to going to the range.

 

[crankyoldlady]

You don't mention if the two revolvers were being fired single or double action.

 

[peppercorn]

Both were fired double and single. How does this affect outcomes?

 

[crankyoldlady]

The hammer drops with much more force in single action than in double action. Sometimes light strikes will occur in double action but not in single in the same gun using the same rounds.

 

[Dale53]

One thing was not mentioned here. Fired primers will ALWAYS have a deeper indent than those that failed to fire. During the ignition phase, the firing pin drives the case forward absorbing some of the blow. When the cartridge fires, the pressure drives the case backwards in the chamber against the firing pin deepening the "dent".

Failure to fire is generally caused by someone using a lighter mainspring than stock (a bit lighter is fine, too much is NOT). Also, as has been mentioned, some shorten the mainspring tension screw for a lighter pull (this also can be overdone).

Mainsprings are cheap. Buy a new mainspring and a new strain screw and chances are your misfires will be old news.

Difficult extraction can be simply dirty chambers. It is not good practice to fire .357 magnums AFTER firing .38 Specials without cleaning. The carbon ring around the mouth of the .38 Specials can make extraction difficult (different guns react differently). That carbon ring can also raise pressures - sometimes significantly as there is diminished room for the case mouth to expand and release the bullet.

Just a thought or two...

Dale53

 

[peppercorn]

The hammer drops with much more force in single action than in double action. Sometimes light strikes will occur in double action but not in single in the same gun using the same rounds.

I see, I didn't know this.

One thing was not mentioned here. Fired primers will ALWAYS have a deeper indent than those that failed to fire. During the ignition phase, the firing pin drives the case forward absorbing some of the blow. When the cartridge fires, the pressure drives the case backwards in the chamber against the firing pin deepening the "dent".

Failure to fire is generally caused by someone using a lighter mainspring than stock (a bit lighter is fine, too much is NOT). Also, as has been mentioned, some shorten the mainspring tension screw for a lighter pull (this also can be overdone).

Mainsprings are cheap. Buy a new mainspring and a new strain screw and chances are your misfires will be old news.

Difficult extraction can be simply dirty chambers. It is not good practice to fire .357 magnums AFTER firing .38 Specials without cleaning. The carbon ring around the mouth of the .38 Specials can make extraction difficult (different guns react differently). That carbon ring can also raise pressures - sometimes significantly as there is diminished room for the case mouth to expand and release the bullet.

Just a thought or two...

Dale53

So this is definately taking the shape of a spring/screw function issue with regard to the misfires.
I am still not seeing how the model 60 escaped the same demise with regard to case ejection since it was also fired in the same sequence, that being .38 specials first and then the .357 mags second?
Could it be that the Model 19 has had many more rounds put through it leading to a 'buildup' of some sort in the cylinder chambers whereas the model 60, having maybe 500 rounds lifetime total, does not have this 'buildup'?
The model 19 was cleaned prior to shooting but the cylinder chambers probably aren't as smooth as those of the model 60 at the distal/barrel end.

 

[AveragEd]

Here's a thought regarding difficult extraction. Back in 1972, I bought a new 4" Model 19 and fed it a diet of mostly .38 Special wadcutters but also its fair share of hot .357s as well. I cleaned it well after every session but after a few months, extraction became sticky, then painful to the hand and finally impossible without a punch and mallet. I returned the gun to Smith & Wesson and they replaced the cylinder, saying that the chambers were no longer round.

A few months later, the same condition returned. Smith & Wesson replaced the cylinder a second time but returned the gun with a letter saying that they would not replace it again under warranty and advising me to use magnum loads sparingly. I complied with their instructions and never had the problem again.

For what it's worth...

Ed

 

[ralph7]

Here's a thought regarding difficult extraction. Back in 1972, I bought a new 4" Model 19 and fed it a diet of mostly .38 Special wadcutters but also its fair share of hot .357s as well. I cleaned it well after every session but after a few months, extraction became sticky, then painful to the hand and finally impossible without a punch and mallet. I returned the gun to Smith & Wesson and they replaced the cylinder, saying that the chambers were no longer round.

A few months later, the same condition returned. Smith & Wesson replaced the cylinder a second time but returned the gun with a letter saying that they would not replace it again under warranty and advising me to use magnum loads sparingly. I complied with their instructions and never had the problem again.

For what it's worth...

Ed

that's what i like about this forum. never heard of such a thing as this, but i am willing to listen and learn.

 

[fyimo]

The light primer strike problem is probably the main spring and strain screw as others have said and they should be replaced. The extraction problem is probably build up in the cylinders caused by shooting a lot of shorter 38 special rounds. The first thing to do for the extraction problem is to really clean the cylinder chambers until they are spotless to see if that solves the problem.

The difference between the two revolvers in terms of primer strike is that one pistol is in excellent shape and the other has a mechanical problem and the problem is not the ammo.

If the ammo was reloads I would have guessed that the primers would have been CCI because they make really hard primers and lots of people that reload have had some problems with them.

 

[Maximumbob54]

Here's a thought regarding difficult extraction. Back in 1972, I bought a new 4" Model 19 and fed it a diet of mostly .38 Special wadcutters but also its fair share of hot .357s as well. I cleaned it well after every session but after a few months, extraction became sticky, then painful to the hand and finally impossible without a punch and mallet. I returned the gun to Smith & Wesson and they replaced the cylinder, saying that the chambers were no longer round.

A few months later, the same condition returned. Smith & Wesson replaced the cylinder a second time but returned the gun with a letter saying that they would not replace it again under warranty and advising me to use magnum loads sparingly. I complied with their instructions and never had the problem again.

For what it's worth...

Ed

Is there any chance you could scan and post that letter here? There is always the back and forth about S&W saying something to the effect of carry magnums and practice with specials. But still to this day you have to wear the nomex suit to not be burned by the coming flame war from such a statement.

 

[peppercorn]

The light primer strike problem is probably the main spring and strain screw as others have said and they should be replaced. The extraction problem is probably build up in the cylinders caused by shooting a lot of shorter 38 special rounds. The first thing to do for the extraction problem is to really clean the cylinder chambers until they are spotless to see if that solves the problem.The difference between the two revolvers in terms of primer strike is that one pistol is in excellent shape and the other has a mechanical problem and the problem is not the ammo.

If the ammo was reloads I would have guessed that the primers would have been CCI because they make really hard primers and lots of people that reload have had some problems with them.

I hear you about the primer/reload issues as this was the first thing I thought of. My brother, father and I reloaded heavily in the late 70s and we frequently had similar 'issues'. In fact I had to remind myself yesterday that I was shooting factory ammo and that I had a comparison gun shadowing the '19'.

I will clean the cylinder again, this time with a brass brush after a good soak in 'accubore'. Before I went to the gange both cylinders were cleaned with a nylon brush and 'accubore' but neither was 'soaked'.

QUOTE=AveragEd;136200404]Here's a thought regarding difficult extraction. Back in 1972, I bought a new 4" Model 19 and fed it a diet of mostly .38 Special wadcutters but also its fair share of hot .357s as well. I cleaned it well after every session but after a few months, extraction became sticky, then painful to the hand and finally impossible without a punch and mallet. I returned the gun to Smith & Wesson and they replaced the cylinder, saying that the chambers were no longer round.

A few months later, the same condition returned. Smith & Wesson replaced the cylinder a second time but returned the gun with a letter saying that they would not replace it again under warranty and advising me to use magnum loads sparingly. I complied with their instructions and never had the problem again.

For what it's worth...

Ed[/QUOTE]

That is an interesting story to say the least.

I bought this gun intending to stick with 'factory only' magnums due to the forcing cone 'issue' I have read about.

That being said I guess I was lead to believe that even that wouldn't be an issue if one stuck to factory loads?
I wonder if anyone else has had this problem with a model 19?

 

[crankyoldlady]

Pepper, your gun, your choice. But my understanding is that the model 19 was meant to shoot mostly .38 Spl and .357 Mag very sparingly.

My 19-3 gets a steady diet of light .38 Spl handloads only and is cleaned till the chambers sparkle after each range trip.

I am taking no chances.

 

[stevieboy]

I think that Dale's pretty much nailed it. A few years ago I bought a used 617 and discovered that I would get light strikes on about one out of every five or six rounds. I replaced the main spring with a factory weight spring and the problem disappeared instantly.

As for the sticky extraction, I agree that carbon fouling could be the problem. Shine a flashlight through the rear of the chambers and examine them from the front. Do you see a black ring in all or most of the chambers? That would be the product of firing .38s through the gun without cleaning it effectively.

The solution is simple. Get an oversized brush -- in .40 caliber or even in .45. Brush each chamber thoroughly with a DRY brush. You may encounter a great deal of resistance in inserting the brush. If you can't brush back and forth, rotate the brush as if you were using a drill bit. You should turn the brush 20-30 full rotations for each chamber. Brushing should become easier as the carbon deposits erode. After brushing, check again with a flashlight. If the rings are still present, brush again. Eventually, the rings will disappear. Then finish the job by swabbing out each chamber with a patch soaked in a good solvent. I like Birchwood Casey Gun Scrubber, but there are a lot of good solvents on the market.

I clean my .357s after each trip to the range and I am a fanatic about brushing out the carbon rings when I fire .38s from them. If you brush after every 100 rounds the buildup will not be significant and the brushing can be done quickly and easily.

 

[old bear]

The only thing I would add to Stevieboy's advice is to use the 40 cal. BRASS brush, but to chuck it in a drill running at SLOW speed and carefully run it through each charging hole. I also like to use a piece of lead-away cloth as a patch to finish cleaning the barrel and charging holes.

 

[AveragEd]

Unfortunately, I no longer have the letter - or the gun, for that matter. We've moved twice since the gun was last repaired by S&W and I sold the gun when I saved up enough to buy a new Python so I wouldn't have to worry about what I shot in a revolver rollmarked "S&W 357 Magnum".

When the L-frame Smiths came along, I returned to the fold. I still love K-frames, have three Model 66s and restrict them to .38 Special target loads.

Ed