1900 Year Old Roman Swords found in Israeli Cave

[Bekeart]

Understand the forum has a section for
Firearms & Knives - Other Brands

Think this historical find is worthy of the Lounge.

1.9K-Year-Old Roman Swords Have a Story to Tell
Remarkably well-preserved weapons are discovered in an Israeli cave

Four Roman-era swords, their wooden and leather hilts and scabbards and steel blades
exquisitely preserved after 1,900 years in a desert cave, surfaced in a recent excavation
by Israeli archaeologists near the Dead Sea, the Israel Antiquities Authority said Wednesday.

Story and a photo at the link.

1.9K-Year-Old Roman Swords Have a Story to Tell

Bekeart

 

[NYlakesider]

Understand the forum has a section for
Firearms & Knives - Other Brands

Think this historical find is worthy of the Lounge.

1.9K-Year-Old Roman Swords Have a Story to Tell
Remarkably well-preserved weapons are discovered in an Israeli cave

Four Roman-era swords, their wooden and leather hilts and scabbards and steel blades
exquisitely preserved after 1,900 years in a desert cave, surfaced in a recent excavation
by Israeli archaeologists near the Dead Sea, the Israel Antiquities Authority said Wednesday.

Story and a photo at the link.

1.9K-Year-Old Roman Swords Have a Story to Tell

Bekeart

Wow, they find all sorts of interesting things in the dead sea area!

 

[DWalt]

The Roman legions used the Gladius short sword as their primary personal weapon for around 500 years. The M16 of the Romans. One interesting fact is that each Roman legionnaire was required to provide his own Gladius. As they were not issued to them by the Roman government, there was only limited standardization. The Gladius was only about two feet long, handy in close combat, double edged, and was very effective in both thrusting and chopping. It was the main reason that the Romans were so successful in battle. It should not be too difficult to use radiocarbon dating on those discovered, as the scabbards were leather-covered wood.

 

[Inusuit]

Thanks for the post, Bekeart. I have the opportunity to learn some things about swords at the museum where I volunteer. All there are 19th century. Swords are unique IMO in they are designed solely for human combat (with a few hunting sword exceptions). Arrows, spears, knives while could be used for combat had other mundane and practical applications.

 

[6string]

Very interesting story! Curious how climate conditions can affect preservation.
Here’s a find involving a Viking sword, discovered in a very different environment: covered with rocks, but otherwise exposed to dry and frigid conditions.

Viking sword discovery: Hunter finds 1,100-year-old weapon on Norwegian mountain | Fox News

Certainly this pushes the forum subheading of “other brands”!

 

[DWalt]

It is interesting to note that the U.S. Model 1832 Foot Artillery sword, in use until the 1870s, was a near-replica of the Roman Gladius. I had to look up the meaning of Foot Artillery. Seems they normally manned large and medium fixed artillery, like siege guns and mortars. But they trained as, and sometimes fought as, infantrymen during the Civil War.

 

[CajunBass]

It is interesting to note that the U.S. Model 1832 Foot Artillery sword, in use until the 1870s, was a near-replica of the Roman Gladius. I had to look up the meaning of Foot Artillery. Seems they normally manned large and medium fixed artillery, like siege guns and mortars. But they trained as, and sometimes fought as, infantrymen during the Civil War.

My Grandfather, a long time Civil War relic hunter, found one of those somewhere around Richmond back in the 60's I suppose it was. We lived in the Cold Harbor area of Hanover County, where at least two major battles of that conflict were fought, so there was a lot of "stuff" as he called it, to find.

That sword, which he called a "Union Artillery non-commissioned officers sword" was the pride of his rather extensive collection. It was in near pristine condition even after more than 100 years in the Virginia soil. I've only seen one other one, and that was in a small museum in Gordonsville, Virginia about twenty years or so ago.

They both had probably belonged to Union men, who, as you said, had been manning the heavy artillery batteries defending Washington for years, but had been called out as infantry to replace the heavy losses during Grants summer offensive in 1864. An offensive that would end at Appomattox the next spring.

 

[.357magger]

The Roman legions used the Gladius short sword as their primary personal weapon for around 500 years. The M16 of the Romans. One interesting fact is that each Roman legionnaire was required to provide his own Gladius. As they were not issued to them by the Roman government, there was only limited standardization.

While true that the Legionary was required to "purchase" his own sword (and a lot of other gear) there was quite a bit of standardization amongst the Legion.

In fact, the Legionary purchased their weapons mostly from the Legions own armorers ( who often shared any profits of same with the commanding General), and in turn those weapons were inspected by the Centurions prior to approval for usage in combat. As such, within the Cohort and Century, Legionary's would have had Gladius of a similar profile, length, weight, and hilts.

It's not like there was the Roman equivalent of Amazon.

 

[robertrwalsh]

I find it fascinating that something could just "hang around" in a cave for close to 2,000 years without being found.

 

[DWalt]

While true that the Legionary was required to "purchase" his own sword (and a lot of other gear) there was quite a bit of standardization amongst the Legion.

In fact, the Legionary purchased their weapons mostly from the Legions own armorers ( who often shared any profits of same with the commanding General), and in turn those weapons were inspected by the Centurions prior to approval for usage in combat. As such, within the Cohort and Century, Legionary's would have had Gladius of a similar profile, length, weight, and hilts.

It's not like there was the Roman equivalent of Amazon.

I imagine there once was a thriving market in used swords. Probably originating from those soldiers who were killed or disabled in battle. Maybe some from retired legionnaires, if there even were any of those. Surprising that they appear to be so scarce today. But maybe not so surprising considering the possibility that most were melted down over 2000 years to make other more useful iron tools and weapons.

 

[.357magger]

I imagine there once was a thriving market in used swords. Probably originating from those soldiers who were killed or disabled in battle. Maybe some from retired legionnaires, if there even were any of those. Surprising that they appear to be so scarce today. But maybe not so surprising considering the possibility that most were melted down over 2000 years to make other more useful iron tools and weapons.

Retiring or dead Legionary's would certainly be a source. Legionnaire's were prohibited however from using battlefield pickups from the enemies long term.

The Gladius was designed and evolved to be used in conjunction with the Sputum (shield). This was also the reason the Gladius was required to be worn on the right, regardless of dominant hand and employed in the right hand. Swords worn on left could become entangled with the shield. Lefty's were trained by tying down the left arm until they could become proficient with their right.

A united shield wall, interlocking with overlapping shields advancing against an enemy, allowed only the opening the Legionary created to quickly stab an opponent. Or chop at exposed legs. They would then step over the opponent and the second rank would finish them off. Fighting as a united front, they were VERY successful against enemies who prized individual combat and charged as a disorganized mob.

The few defeats we know from history occurred when opponents managed large scale flank attacks, forced them into narrow confines, or ambushed a Legion from the flanks when caught on the March.

A final thought, forensic analysis is going to determine a lot about these swords. I'm wondering if they were in fact Roman military or local made copies by the Jewish rebels themselves. Or even Roman military blades re-hilted locally. Time will solve this mystery but this is a story I'm going to follow. Curse of having a major in History.

 

[kamloops67]

Retiring or dead Legionary's would certainly be a source. Legionnaire's were prohibited however from using battlefield pickups from the enemies long term.

The Gladius was designed and evolved to be used in conjunction with the Sputum (shield). This was also the reason the Gladius was required to be worn on the right, regardless of dominant hand and employed in the right hand. Swords worn on left could become entangled with the shield. Lefty's were trained by tying down the left arm until they could become proficient with their right.

A united shield wall, interlocking with overlapping shields advancing against an enemy, allowed only the opening the Legionary created to quickly stab an opponent. Or chop at exposed legs. They would then step over the opponent and the second rank would finish them off. Fighting as a united front, they were VERY successful against enemies who prized individual combat and charged as a disorganized mob.

The few defeats we know from history occurred when opponents managed large scale flank attacks, forced them into narrow confines, or ambushed a Legion from the flanks when caught on the March.

A final thought, forensic analysis is going to determine a lot about these swords. I'm wondering if they were in fact Roman military or local made copies by the Jewish rebels themselves. Or even Roman military blades re-hilted locally. Time will solve this mystery but this is a story I'm going to follow. Curse of having a major in History.

Just watched a video on you tube that says the same thing
From scholara gladiatora ( or something close to that )

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Thanks for the post, Bekeart. I have the opportunity to learn some things about swords at the museum where I volunteer. All there are 19th century. Swords are unique IMO in they are designed solely for human combat (with a few hunting sword exceptions). Arrows, spears, knives while could be used for combat had other mundane and practical applications.

Assault knives, with little to no application to hunting. Had our ancestors outlawed these, we could have avoided all wars, to say nothing of localised domestic violence. Can anyone guess why I used an s rather than a z in localised?

 

[DWalt]

I remember reading something to the effect that Roman officers above a certain rank wore the Gladius on their left side as a means of identification. They weren't out on the line hacking and thrusting behind a wall of shields.

I'd bet that the Gladius was probably made in numerous locations all over the empire, and there were likely quite a few variations on the same general design. I doubt there was anything resembling a national armory for manufacturing weapons.

 

[ENNE-FRAME]

Archaeologists discover a primitive fridge with cooler in ruins of Roman camp

Discovered in Bulgaria a refrigerator whit additional cooler, where Roman soldiers stored game and wine.
Archaeologists discovered how wine was cooled in Roman legions on the Danube - Arkeonews

 

[lihpster]

I find it fascinating that something could just "hang around" in a cave for close to 2,000 years without being found.

They found 15,000 year old sandals in a cave here in Oregon. And they were made from plant fibers.

 

[Jack Flash]

Here is a video on YouTube about the find. Good view of the swords and cave they were found in. Be advised the audio is not in English but there are subtitles.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML6D8Kta-PU"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML6D8Kta-PU[/ame]