1905 4th charge target

[ACORN]

I bought this revolver I've been told is a 1905 4th change target.
I is a long action with a hump back hammer
Later diamond stocks with a small chip out of one panel on the top of the inside curve.
Grooved front and back straps.
I am unsure if it's the original finish.
It made one trip back to Springfield as it has a diamond after the serial and a rework stamp on the inside of the grip frame.
I've had it about 20 years and the friend I bought it from had it for around the same length of time.
It has some finish issues with some blotches in the bluing on the cylinder between the flutes. The blotches are nowhere near as bad as the picture shows.
Thinking of selling it off locally being UPS, FedEx are being difficult with private party shipping, but have no idea on the value.
Any help.

 

[StrawHat]

Someone else can help with value as I am usually honest but low.

Local sale is nice but so is this forum's sales section.

As for shipping. Use an ffl to ship it. They can use USPS and get better rates than UPS or FedEx.

Kevin

 

[DWalt]

Yours would correctly be called just the Military and Police (Target) Model. It would date to be around 1940-41, about 25 years after S&W ceased using the Model 1905 terminology.

 

[paplinker]

There has been 4 of these for sale in varying condition in the last month or so, Which is kind of funny as I had been looking for one for the last year or so with none to be found.

I paid 850 shipped for mine here this summer on the forum. Very good condition.

One just sold on GB
Just a moment...


There are two others around but forum rules apply.

I traded a finish challenged one for 700 a few years back and felt remorse for not having it anymore. You sure you want to sell it?

 

[rct269]

Values-----------------------------------------

These sold from my collection within the last three years (all or most all on Gun Broker). All were in the mid to high 90% of original finish.

$1500
$1225 (32/20)
$1025
$2475
$1475
$1450

Ralph Tremaine

 

[glowe]

Actually, you have what Roy calls a K38 Masterpiece revolver!! Check page 137 of the bible. I have 696317 that I bought for $600 last year and it shipped in August 1940. This model with its Magna stocks was built just like the K22 and K32 Masterpiece revolvers starting in 1940 and ending shortly thereafter for WWII. The 1939 S&W catalog called the square butt version a K Model and the round butt a Military & Police revolver.

 

[cgt4570]

Actually, you have what Roy calls a K38 Masterpiece revolver!! Check page 137 of the bible. I have 696317 that I bought for $600 last year and it shipped in August 1940. This model with its Magna stocks was built just like the K22 and K32 Masterpiece revolvers starting in 1940 and ending shortly thereafter for WWII. The 1939 S&W catalog called the square butt version a K Model and the round butt a Military & Police revolver.

I have to disagree. The revolver pictured has post-war stocks and the rear sight that pre-dates the .22 Masterpiece micrometer sight. The K22 1940 (aka Masterpiece) was the only Smith to get the very similar to post-war rear sight. It also has the unique to model long style/short action hammer that has the rebated cut on the back.

 

[austintexas]

refinish

The quick and dirty way I check for original finish is: open the cylinder and check the end of the extractor rod. If the button on the end is in the white (no finish) to me indicates an original finish. That being said, usually when a revolver is refinished the person refinishing it doesn't take the time to remove the blue off the end of the button. The factory removes the finish when they fit the extractor rod to the detent under the barrel when reassembling after the revolver is factory blued. This is what I've been told a long time ago.
SWCA 892

FYI, S&W started manufacture of Magna Stocks in 1936, did they came on the revolver would probably take a letter.

 

[Keith Brown]

Acorn, nice old 1905 Target revolver, Its okay to call them that, I chase them a bit and my letters refer to them that way, doubt Mr. Jinks would entertain changing all my letters ! A light charge of Bullseye and a home cast wadcutter is a delight at the range.

Thanks for showing

 

[glowe]

I have to disagree. The revolver pictured has post-war stocks and the rear sight that pre-dates the .22 Masterpiece micrometer sight. The K22 1940 (aka Masterpiece) was the only Smith to get the very similar to post-war rear sight. It also has the unique to model long style/short action hammer that has the rebated cut on the back.

Roy made those statements, so you can tell him he is wrong, not me. It is, at least, an interesting paragraph and makes me wonder if the company missed a marketing opportunity with their 32 and 38 target revolvers in 1940. Of course, WWII did get in the way of sales and I guess that very few target K frames in any of those calibers were made before the factory transitioned into supporting the war effort. Those stocks were on my gun when I bought it, but the Magnas on the OP's gun look like pre-war with the square cut corners, and likely shipped that way. What I am not so sure about is why they have a heavily rounded top??

NOTE: after a second look at the OP's stocks, some of the corners of the checkering appear rounded??

I do know that the K22 Masterpiece (aka 1940) was advertised in all the literature I can find as using that name pre-war, but the K32 and 38 were not named "Masterpiece" pre-war in company literature. Also, none of the handful of these 1940-1941 guns I have seen had micrometer rear sights.

 

[ACORN]

Actually, you have what Roy calls a K38 Masterpiece revolver!! Check page 137 of the bible. I have 696317 that I bought for $600 last year and it shipped in August 1940. This model with its Magna stocks was built just like the K22 and K32 Masterpiece revolvers starting in 1940 and ending shortly thereafter for WWII. The 1939 S&W catalog called the square butt version a K Model and the round butt a Military & Police revolver.

Is there any difference in value between a K38 Masterpiece and 1905 Target or it just the name?

 

[DWalt]

To add a little clarity to the discussion, the (presumably) 1941 S&W catalog (which likely reflects 1940 information) contained in the 1944 First Edition of Gun Digest lists a "K-22 Masterpiece," a "K-38 Target," and also a "K-32 Target," priced at $40, $38, and $38 respectively. The last two revolvers were definitely not shown as being "Masterpieces." Only the "K-22 Masterpiece" is described as having the micrometer adjustable rear sight and the short action, so it is likely that the other two retain the old-style adjustable rear sight, described only as "adjustable for windage and elevation," and the long action. It therefore seems that there is no discernable difference between the "K-38 Target" and what has traditionally been called the .38 M&P Target Model, other than the name. It is surprising that the "K-32 Target" was even listed as there was only a tiny number of them sold before production was stopped due to the war. It looks like that it was simply an M&P chambered in .32 S&W Long that was equipped with old style target rear and front sights.

 

[glowe]

Is there any difference in value between a K38 Masterpiece and 1905 Target or it just the name?

Just a name on the surface, but . . . Roy claims a name change in 1940, the year both yours and my target was shipped. There were likely very few targets made in 1940 - 1941, but just because they were made just prior to WWII will not be a value adder.

I just feel it is interesting that Roy put that paragraph in his book and that one of the catalogs from the era named the square butt 38 as a Model K. They are different than the K22 Masterpiece, but just because they are not made exactly the same, is what some members claim is the reason why they cannot be called 38K Masterpiece revolvers.

I enjoy "what if" conversations, but some are very adamant about their views on the subject.

 

[DARE]

Here are the pages from the 1941 Catalog.

 

[DWalt]

They are different than the K22 Masterpiece, but just because they are not made exactly the same, is what some members claim is the reason why they cannot be called 38K Masterpiece revolvers.

I suppose it had to have the micrometer rear sight and the short action to be worthy of bearing the name "Masterpiece."

The immediate postwar "Mexican Model" rightly deserves to be called the first K-38 Masterpiece, but that revolver has a different story all its own.

 

[ACORN]

FWIW the front of my ejector rod is in the white.
I know the stocks aren't original as the serial # stamped in the inside doesn't match the gun.

The quick and dirty way I check for original finish is: open the cylinder and check the end of the extractor rod. If the button on the end is in the white (no finish) to me indicates an original finish. That being said, usually when a revolver is refinished the person refinishing it doesn't take the time to remove the blue off the end of the button. The factory removes the finish when they fit the extractor rod to the detent under the barrel when reassembling after the revolver is factory blued. This is what I've been told a long time ago.
SWCA 892

FYI, S&W started manufacture of Magna Stocks in 1936, did they came on the revolver would probably take a letter.

 

[DWalt]

Original period-correct Magna grips, if you can even find a pair, will be costly. But it could have originally shipped with round-top silver medallion grips of that time. In high condition, they can also be expensive as they are somewhat scarce. A letter would establish what the original grips were.

It would be wonderful if someone could start making high-quality reproductions of all the great old-style factory S&W and Colt wooden grips at a reasonable price.

 

[ACORN]

Yes I wouldn't mind lettering it if the cost wasn't so high, but again the stocks aren't numbered to the gun so I know they're not original.

 

[fleabus101]

I have an affliction/addiction to the pre and post war
diamond center stocks.
I recently bought a set of the SE Asia N Frame repro grips just to see how they look first hand. They are the silver medallion types. The medalions are incorrect size..too small, and didnt do justice to the factory made stocks at all to me.
I'm so impressed by them I'll give them away to anyone who want them..