1905 5-Screw Question

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Nickjc

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Hi All,

I came across an opportunity on two pistols locally at my local gun shop and I have a few questions being new to collecting S&W's and wanting to add these to my meager collection.

1) It appears to be a model .38 M&P of 1905 -5 screw, 4" with original grips with Gold medallions, Square butt that measures 1.75" +/-, the firearm itself is very tight in terms of lockup/timing etc. and the bore is fantastic. It has the S&W trademark on the side plate - says Smith & Wesson the left side of the barrel and on the right it says after a little mark .38 S&W Special CTG with another little mark as I recall.
I would rate it as VG.

Now the rub for me is attempting to determine the change and I looked in the 3rd Ed of the S&W Standard Catalog and the thing that makes me think it is the 4th change is the serial range - this is 260XXX - no letters or numbers.

Is it valid to determine the change by serial alone?

They also have a 1955ish (as I recall from the serial) Model 36 all original with little to no wear at all and I would rate as excellent. Original Grips, great bluing etc. Neither have boxes.

I am going to pick these up as I do not have either variation and I *think* the price is ok -

Searching books, online etc. it seems the values vary wildly at depending on where you look.

In your collective opinions do you think $ 250.00 per pistol is our of the ordinary? I am ok with that, I am just trying to gauge value as a neophyte in the S&W world.

Any guidance or opinion you can provide would be appreciated !!

Thanks
 
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First of all, for either of those guns in the condition you describe (not having seen pictures), $250 is "out of the ordinary" low. Buy.

The SCSW puts the serial cut-off for the 3rd to 4th change at 241703, and with 260xxx you are safely in 4th change territory; I believe that unlike with the 1st and 2nd change, there was no serial overlap. That serial likely shipped around 1916.
 
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Absalom said:
First of all, for either of those guns in the condition you describe (not having seen pictures), $250 is "out of the ordinary" low. Buy.

The SCSW puts the serial cut-off for the 3rd to 4th change at 241703, and with 260xxx you are safely in 4th change territory; I believe that unlike with the 1st and 2nd change, there was no serial overlap. That serial likely shipped around 1916.
Click to expand...

Thanks for taking the time to respond and I appreciate the insight.
 
Good prices. Buy away.

But I have a couple comments:

1. If it is a "fourth change" gun, made in or after 1915, it should have a December 29, 1914, patent date on the barrel. That, together with the serial number, would be a pretty reliable indication that it is what you think it is.

2. As for the Chiefs Special, if it was made in 1955, it definitely is not a Model 36. And conversely, if it is marked MOD 36 in the yoke cut, it definitely was not made in 1955.
 
JP@AK said:
Good prices. Buy away.

But I have a couple comments:

1. If it is a "fourth change" gun, made in or after 1915, it should have a December 29, 1914, patent date on the barrel. That, together with the serial number, would be a pretty reliable indication that it is what you think it is.

2. As for the Chiefs Special, if it was made in 1955, it definitely is not a Model 36. And conversely, if it is marked MOD 36 in the yoke cut, it definitely was not made in 1955.
Click to expand...

I will get some pics tomorrow, I went back and looked at my notes, and I know where I erred on the Model 36 -

It is a 550XXX serial, probably more like 1966ish - in my zeal I saw this ( i guess one more digit helps, right? :) )

1955 = 55050 - 75000
 
Some pics - I didn't take the time to wipe em down etc. just some quick pics while I could get them.

20160802_152756_zpspannovit.jpg


20160802_152742_zps92bfnnqq.jpg


20160802_153003_zps5y9hobrl.jpg


20160802_152938_zpstwrnonik.jpg


20160802_153103_zpswmpvp0v5.jpg


20160802_153055_zpse1hzoe6d.jpg
 
:)

Thanks - now the stinky part is being in Jersey - only allowed one every 31 days and I have to wait for individual permits to purchase each to be approved -28 days at least for that.

Cannot wait to live in a 'free' state - !
 
Yes, that was a great catch for that price. The 36 alone could easily be a $350-400 gun depending on where you are.

The 36 looks great. And the M&P is in excellent shape for its age and the finish appears original. Only the wood stocks are not; these are post-1968. The originals would have looked like on the 1913 specimen in the attached photo. But at that price, that's minor.
 

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Absalom said:
Yes, that was a great catch for that price. The 36 alone could easily be a $350-400 gun depending on where you are.

The 36 looks great. And the M&P is in excellent shape for its age and the finish appears original. Only the wood stocks are not; these are post-1968. The originals would have looked like on the 1913 specimen in the attached photo. But at that price, that's minor.
Click to expand...

Thanks !

So much to learn :)

- now I will have to *try* to find those grips....

I have been looking around the forum here and it is a wealth of info - more than I have seen on some over the years.

Is it worth it, to see what the factory might have to tell me about it? I know these are not rate by a long shot, but would be neat to know some more history on it. :)
 
Nickjc; said:
Is it worth it, to see what the factory might have to tell me about it? I know these are not rate by a long shot, but would be neat to know some more history on it. :)
Click to expand...

That depends on your curiosity. I'm probably the wrong guy to ask, since I letter any addition to my collection with reckless abandon (although I generally don't buy just "nice" guns or great deals anymore, but only guns where I already have reason to suspect the letter might tell me something interesting). Probability-wise, on these two the $75-per-gun will likely get you a sporting goods store they shipped to. Personally, I'd letter the M&P; I've found even a 100-year-old hardware store an interesting object for some further research. The 36 is a bit too new to promise anything "historical". Just my perspective.
 
Absalom said:
That depends on your curiosity. I'm probably the wrong guy to ask, since I letter any addition to my collection with reckless abandon (although I generally don't buy just "nice" guns or great deals anymore, but only guns where I already have reason to suspect the letter might tell me something interesting). Probability-wise, on these two the $75-per-gun will likely get you a sporting goods store they shipped to. Personally, I'd letter the M&P; I've found even a 100-year-old hardware store an interesting object for some further research. The 36 is a bit too new to promise anything "historical". Just my perspective.
Click to expand...

Agreed I was only thinking of the M&P anyway - what is the process to do so - I am sure a web search is my friend... ;)
 
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Yeah, that's like "free" guns! It must be your birthday or something, and the seller must be related or a good friend trying to give you a gift.
 
Absalom said:
Go to this link. Instructions are at the bottom of the form.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-ejectors-1896-1961/185369-factory-letter-request-form.html

PS: That link didn't work for me just now. If you have trouble with it too, use this one. Same form.

Smith & Wesson Collectors Association
Click to expand...

Thank you !

What type of info do they provide? Is there a sample letter with typical info?

:)

Also if one wanted to join the collectors assoc, do you need a sponsor? I thought I read that........
 
DocB said:
Yeah, that's like "free" guns! It must be your birthday or something, and the seller must be related or a good friend trying to give you a gift.
Click to expand...

shouldazagged said:
You made out like the proverbial highway miscreant. I should be so lucky. :D
Click to expand...

Thanks, the shop I saw it in and will be picking them up from, is a place that I have been a good customer and help for some years. I help him from time to time on some saturday's doing cleanings and some 'repairs' - for nothing but a nice deli sandwich :) So yeah he takes care of me from time to time on things that come in that I show an interest in - he *is* a good guy.

My interest has slowly changed from long guns (enfields, M1's etc.), to specifically S&W pistols and revolvers. I did snag a good shape 39-2 last year and earlier this year a pristine 59.

My meager collection is expanding ! :)

The nice part is they are easier to store/show than long guns. lol....
 
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