1911 .38 Super

[bananaman]

I have been thinking about this a while so going to present the question on 38 Super. What seems to be the advantage to owning 1. Have 2 45ACP's, a .40 Commander, and a 9mm. {1911's} I hand load, so not too worried about ammo price.
Are they far more accurate?
Any input would be appreciated. Thanks, Bob

 

[Goony]

Since you already have a 9mm, I don't see any compelling reason add a .38 Super. This NRA article may be of interest in this regard: Head to Head: .38 Super vs. 9 mm | An Official Journal Of The NRA

 

[Alk8944]

.38 Super (Super .38 Auto correctly) is about 100-150 FPS faster than 9mm Parabellum, with a 130 grain bullet. As a result it is somewhat more powerful than 9mm. Accuracy is about equal to any other caliber on the 1911 platform. It is just another .38/9mm cartridge with the greatest attraction being its history. There is no reason you wouldn't like the cartridge, but it is all up to you to decide if you want a gun in this caliber. If you buy one I would recommend buying .38 Todd Jarrett cartridge cases from Starline. The .38 T.J. is a rimless version of .38 Super which is originally a semi-rimmed cartridge. Feeding and dependability can be somewhat more consistent with the .38 T.J. brass.

 

[tlawler]

About three years ago, I got bitten by the .38 Super bug and picked up this used Wilson Combat tuned Colt 1911. It’s a lot of fun to shoot and the round is easy to reload, more so than 9mm in my opinion. I don’t own a 9mm 1911, so I can’t make a comparison, but I put in a stouter spring and run loads through it that are way hotter than you’d see in a 9mm.

 

[Rock185]

I've shot and reloaded for the Super since the '70s, and have no argument with what the other guys said. The cases are a little easier to handle during the reloading process due to the longer case. It can be loaded to higher safe velocities than the 9MM, especially with the heavier 147 grain, etc. bullets. And I'll second use of the rimless type cases. I've used the .38 Super Comp, along with some .38TJ cases for years. Is the Super "far more accurate?", no, depends on the gun. I have found that if using a Colt with the traditional non ramped barrel, the Super does tend to feed more reliably than the 9mm cartridge with other than RN ball ammo. Using pistols with integrally ramped barrels, like Dan Wesson, Kimber, STI, Kimber, Springfield and others, it's a wash. Both cartridges just work..

 

[Hair Trigger]

.38 Super (Super .38 Auto correctly) is about 100-150 FPS faster than 9mm Parabellum, with a 130 grain bullet. As a result it is somewhat more powerful than 9mm. Accuracy is about equal to any other caliber on the 1911 platform. It is just another .38/9mm cartridge with the greatest attraction being its history. There is no reason you wouldn't like the cartridge, but it is all up to you to decide if you want a gun in this caliber.If you buy one I would recommend buying .38 Todd Jarrett cartridge cases from Starline. The .38 T.J. is a rimless version of .38 Super which is originally a semi-rimmed cartridge. Feeding and dependability can be somewhat more consistent with the .38 T.J. brass.

It's called "Super Comp" brass, and it does feed better, IMO than standard Super brass. It's all I use to reload with. The 1911 was the first pistol chambered for .38 Super, and the caliber falls between .38 Spl. and .357 Magnum in power. I own a RIA 1911 chambered for it, and it's my favorite full-size 1911 to shoot (I also have 10mm and .45ACP full-size 1911's, as well as Commander sized 1911's in 9mm and .40S&W). In comparison, I hardly ever shoot the 9mm Commander.

 

[TeamPB]

All my 1911's are .45, but I also have been bitten by the .38 Super Automatic bug. For 2024 either a Colt 1911 or a Dan Wesson Guardian, in 38 Super, is the only item on my want list. If my memory is correct the caliber is the one JMB believed to be the best for the Government platform. If true, that alone is reason enough for me.

 

[Borderboss]

I've never been a fan of the 9mm in a 1911. I had one back about 35 years ago and could never get it to cycle properly because of the short OAL. But I found the .38 Super to be great in the 1911, again because of a longer OAL.

Since you handload, you can safely get the Super to shoot a much faster velocity safely than the 9mm. My favorite bullet weight is 125 gr. With the right powders, you can easily get velocities of 1,400 fps. Essentially .357 Magnum performance.

The Para Ordnance I carry sometimes is below. It's a full size gun by all means, but the Galco shoulder holster makes it easy to carry. I'm not using reloads as a carry ammo (yet), so I carry Underwood JHP ammo. They publish a velocity of 1,350 with a 125 gr JHP that looks like a Sierra bullet. I get 1,351 in my 5" Nowlin barrel with a fully supported chamber. It's easy to shoot.

 

[Alk8944]

It's called "Super Comp" brass, and it does feed better,

This is not correct! There are three versions of .38 Super brass. Your trying to "correct " my reply falls short! The .38 Todd Jarrett I mentioned is a completely rimless variant of the original .38 Super for the reasons I posted. The .38 Super Comp. Is sort of the same idea as .38 TJ, but is a compromise. The TJ is completely rimless but the Super Comp rim is slightly larger than the TJ but smaller than the original case. The idea was the same for both, to improve reliability and feeding. Most will not be able to see any difference between the two variations, but they are not the same! All three versions of .38 Super are available from Starline.

 

[erikpolcrack]

I have a Rock Island M1911 in 9mm that I like very much. I ordered a 38 Super barrel from them and it fit and functioned perfectly. I use a slightly stiffer spring for 38 Super mode. I like it that way so much I am getting a 38 Super barrel for my other 9mm.

 

[colt_saa]

I have been shooting and hand loading for 38 SUPER cartridge perhaps four decades now

I find the cartridge to be inherently more accurate than it's a smaller 9MM sibling

Additionally the report is different the 38 SUPER is more of a kaboom than a bang

In addition to a few 1911s I have opened up all of my Smith and Wesson model 940s to accept 38 super plus I have a few other odds and ends like a pair of EAA witness which is absolutely fantastic

In 1996 Winchester introduced the 9x23 Winchester cartridge. This was a rimless 38 SUPER dimensioned cartridge that operates 55,000 PSI. This cartridge will push a 125 grain projectile in excess of 1450 feet per second from a 5 inch 1911

Since we are on the Smith and Wesson Forum I will mention that I have converted spare cylinders for a couple of my model 627 revolvers that are chambered for 9x23 Winchester. Since they are revolvers which headspace on the moon clip, every shorter variation of the cartridge can be fired safely all the way down to 380 ACP

 

[DWalt]

A 9mm M1911 can be converted to .38 Super by simply changing barrels and magazines, and, possibly, recoil springs. Or vice versa. A .45 ACP can be converted to 9mm or .38 Super by changing slide, barrels, magazines, and ejector. The same slide can be used for 9mm and .38 Super. I have done that for a great many years. Mine uses the unsupported chamber barrels.

 

[DWalt]

While a .38 Super magazine may handle 9mm, I have found that to be unreliable. .38 Super cartridges cannot be used in 9mm magazines. There should be no need to "fit" a .38 Super barrel into a 9mm slide. Should be a simple drop-in replacement. I have no problem firing 9x23 Win loads in mine, but I normally use lighter loads. Starline .38 Super Comp cases work very well in my gun, but I also reload ordinary .38 Super semi-rim cases. If you want, for some reason, to load very hot loads for use in a .38 barrel with an unsupported chamber, using 9x23 Win cases is strongly advised. Except they are very difficult to come by today.

Regarding a .38 Super barrel, it should be one which headspaces on the case mouth. Old barrels headspaced on the case semi-rim, and you do not want that.

I have a similar setup with an EAA Witness. One frame, two slides, three barrels, and appropriate magazines and springs. .45 ACP, .38 Super/9x23, and 9mm all on one frame.

 

[crows]

I have had a 38Super Commander for about 34 years. From time to time during those years I have shot it quite a bit. I like it and will probably never part with it. Having said that, if I didn't have it, I would opt for a Commander in 9mm. I shoot so much 9mm it is just as easy to consentrate on one less caliber to reload for.
Also, for what it is worth, whether it be factory ammo or my reloads, I have never had reliability issues with the original Super brass.

 

[22lrfan]

I've never shot a 9mm 1911. I found this .38 Super at a local pawn shop and it shoots great.

 

[SuperMan]

bananaman...if you don't want to invest in a whole new gun both your .40 Commander and 9mm can be turned into .38 Super with just a barrel, magazine and correct recoil spring...

Have been loading for, carrying and collection Supers of all kinds since 1980. Started out with a 1969 Colt SUPER .38 and a 1952 Commander and just kept building from there. The 52 Commander was carried daily for 27 years including several years while I was with Dallas PD... Although no longer carried much it did shoot an IDPA match today...

As to why the Super...speed, power, accuracy and versatility... One can load bullets from 80-180 grains, .355, .356 or .357, something that the 9mm nor the 9x23 can do because the Super is a straight walled case. It also makes a better snubbie round because it won't back out of the chamber and tie up the gun like a 9mm+P will...

Probably the only drawback is that because of it's length it can't fit the compact frame sizes that a 9mm and .40 can use...

As to the standard .38 Super case vs. the rimless designs, they were invented because double stack magazines like the 2011s and EEA Witness had feeding problems because of the rims... I've got two dozen semis in .38 Super and zero issues with feeding and don't own one piece of non-Super brass.

38 Super

Corbon

38 Super Loads: We Like Buffalo Bores Jacketed HPs - Gun Tests

How Does

Trail gun perfection: Kimber's .38 super stainless target II. - Free Online Library

https://www.1911addicts.com/threads/38-supers.19081/

https://www.handloadermagazine.com/38-super-automatic-p

https://reloadammo.com/reloading-380-super-auto/

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/super-powders-for-the-38-super/99160

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/super-accurate-38-super-loads/326242




If I had one centerfire round left it would be a Super...

 

[SuperMan]

1969 SUPER .38

1952 Commander

649 and 686-7

66-2 3"

Gary Reeder Trail Gun...

 

[Hair Trigger]

The .38 Todd Jarrett I mentioned is a completely rimless variant of the original .38 Super for the reasons I posted. The .38 Super Comp. Is sort of the same idea as .38 TJ, but is a compromise. The TJ is completely rimless but the Super Comp rim is slightly larger than the TJ but smaller than the original case..

And I stand corrected; I was not aware of the TJ case. Al and I discussed the differences at length in a PM. When it is measured out, the difference is about 0.003" in diameter, almost invisible to the eye even when compared side-by-side, but it apparently makes a difference, as so many situations of slightly different dimensions do in firearms.

 

[DWalt]

I have always been strangely attracted to the .38 Super. Maybe because it (in the form of the .38 ACP) was one of the earliest cartridges for the then-new semiauto pistols. And also because there are many variations of the 9x23 cartridge worldwide. No question that it can be loaded up to near-.357 Mag performance if you want to go there. I usually do not.

Regarding the .38 TJ vs. the .38 Super Comp cases, I don't believe there is much difference. I have never so much as seen a .38 TJ case, but from what I have read about it, It seems to be a little heavier than the .38 Super and .38 Super Comp brass and therefore more suitable for high pressure loads. At one of the SHOT Shows pre-Covid, I cornered one of the Starline guys to talk about the .38 Super Comp. At the time he told me that its case was strong enough to handle the hottest loads I wanted to make, and that seems to be true. However, I have over 500 9x23 Win cases that I prefer to use for top end ballistics (always use SR primers for those). My recommendation to anyone reloading for a .38 Super Auto pistol is to always use the rimless .38 Super Comp cases, provided your barrel headspaces on the case mouth. Nothing wrong with using standard .38 Super cases for lighter factory level loadings, but I just prefer rimless brass.

 

[SuperMan]

A 9x23 should be set up like a .45 Super...flat bottom firing pin stop, heavier main spring, firing pin spring and recoil spring...just trying to slow down the unlocking of the slide... Brass distance thrown is second only to a full power 10mm...

Bought a couple of cases of the Winchester 125 FP and a few boxes of the SilverTip HPs a long time ago...don't shoot it very often and have never bother reloading any... Just don't find it very pleasant to shoot...

Bob