1911 Half Notch

[John Sobieski]

Probably Not

I doubt the half-cock notch will stop an AD/ND when lowering the hammer. In order to lower the hammer, you have to pull the trigger. If the hammer slips while the trigger is held back, the half-cock notch won't stop it.

On a Series 80, you can pull the trigger, release it after the hammer clears the sear and then lower the hammer to "half cock" notch.

Using this method, the hammer would be stopped by the "half cock" if I lost my grip on the hammer as I lowered it. I wouldn't use this method, but it could allow you a two stage process to bring the hammer all the way down -first to half cock, and then all the way down. By the way, the fall from the Safety Stop on the Hammer if you pull the trigger is very short, and almost certainly too short to generate a sufficient blow to the firing pin to actually fire a live chambered round.

However, as you say, if you hold the trigger back, the "half cock" won't stop the hammer's fall.

 

[Nathan Forrest]

I was taught when lowering the hammer that the left thumb was placed in front of the hammer as an extra safeguard as you squeezed then released the trigger holding the hammer with the right thumb and lowering it to half cock. From half cock the trigger is pulled again right thumb still on hammer and the left thumb is s l o w l y eased away to allow the hammer to reach the frame under right thumb control..

 

[OKFC05]

I was taught when lowering the hammer that the left thumb was placed in front of the hammer as an extra safeguard as you squeezed then released the trigger holding the hammer with the right thumb and lowering it to half cock. From half cock the trigger is pulled again right thumb still on hammer and the left thumb is s l o w l y eased away to allow the hammer to reach the frame under right thumb control..

I'm curious what agency/instructor taught such a "careful" method for performing an act that according to the Colt manual "is inherently dangerous and should never be done"?
I'm not being glib, I'm serous.

 

[John Sobieski]

I was taught when lowering the hammer that the left thumb was placed in front of the hammer as an extra safeguard as you squeezed then released the trigger holding the hammer with the right thumb and lowering it to half cock. From half cock the trigger is pulled again right thumb still on hammer and the left thumb is s l o w l y eased away to allow the hammer to reach the frame under right thumb control..

Your two step process sounds like a prudent approach to lowering the hammer.

Juggling the grip safety, hammer and trigger requires too much dexterity for me to be comfortable with lowering the hammer on a live round. I can't control the hammer with my right thumb while at the same time engaging the grip safety sufficiently with my right hand to pull the trigger to release the sear. I have to hold the hammer with my left hand while my right hand pulls the trigger.

I'm more comfortable either leaving the pistol cocked with the safety engaged with a live round in the chamber, or unloading the gun altogether.

 

[stiab]

Under no circumstances is there ever a reason to manually cock the hammer, as it should never be lowered on a chambered round.

I'm not a 1911 guy, although I do own one. The sentiment above has been expressed in this thread several times, seemingly from the perspective of having a negligent discharge if you screw up lowering the hammer. I can't see why that is a big deal, if you are an experienced revolver or lever action rifle shooter. How many millions of times in the last 110 years have deer hunters with Marlin and Winchester rifles had to lower the hammer on a live round when the deer disappears? Marlin now has a safety, maybe Winchester too, but not for the first 100 years. Is it more dangerous to lower the hammer on a live round in a 1911 than on a S&W revolver or a Winchester Model 94? I'm asking because it seems the same to me. Correct me if I'm wrong, thanks...

 

[TACC1]

stiab;
You have a good point, been doing the manual lowering on other
firearms, and don't see any probem with the 1911
When cleaning, or otherwise checking-out a 1911, I lower the hammer
manually. I've never had it slip. When at the range, I will sometimes
lower the hammer on a live round. I did it "just because" I wanted to see
if there was any difficulty involved. I've got small hands and use both for
this operation. This thread gave me an excuse to dig one out and clean
one; thanks.
TACC1

 

[johngalt]

I'm not a 1911 guy, although I do own one. The sentiment above has been expressed in this thread several times, seemingly from the perspective of having a negligent discharge if you screw up lowering the hammer. I can't see why that is a big deal, if you are an experienced revolver or lever action rifle shooter. How many millions of times in the last 110 years have deer hunters with Marlin and Winchester rifles had to lower the hammer on a live round when the deer disappears? Marlin now has a safety, maybe Winchester too, but not for the first 100 years. Is it more dangerous to lower the hammer on a live round in a 1911 than on a S&W revolver or a Winchester Model 94? I'm asking because it seems the same to me. Correct me if I'm wrong, thanks...

I assume you are referring to lever-action rifles. I don't have one, all mine are autos or bolt action with no exposed hammer. I have no idea how complicated it is to lower the hammer.

My revolvers have lighter main springs (S&W revolvers use 18 lb springs, my 1911s I think are 23 lb). My revolvers have larger hammers and are easier to hold on to. They also don't have a grip safety, which is one less opportunity to slip. So I think it probably is easier to lower the hammer on a revolver than a 1911.

But you also have to consider the risk of a ND leaving it cocked vs. trying to uncock it. The risk of a ND of leaving a revolver cocked is significant - there is no safety, the sear/hammer engagement surfaces are small, only light pressure is needed to release it, and even a properly functioning hammer can push off. In this case, it might be safer to uncock it. But why was it cocked? If you weren't intending to fire, it shouldn't have been cocked in the first place.

A 1911 was designed to be carried condition 1. There is next to zero risk of a ND. The risk of a ND while uncocking it is much greater. If used defensively, now you have to manually cock before it can be fired. The consequences of fumbling it might be the last mistake you make. There is simply no good reason to lower the hammer on a loaded round.

The purpose of the trigger is to release the hammer and fire the weapon. Logically, the trigger should never be pulled on a loaded weapon unless the intent is to fire. IMHO, pulling the trigger on a loaded weapon without the intent to fire is negligent.

 

[stiab]

I assume you are referring to lever-action rifles.

My revolvers have larger hammers

A 1911 was designed to be carried condition 1.

No reason to assume, my post said..."lever action rifle shooter". I compared the hammer on my Colt 1911 to some S&W revolvers, and it is bigger than the hammers on my J frames, bigger than the hammer on my K frame Model 12 (which was made with more narrow hammer and trigger then the regular K frame), and the same size as the hammer on the rest of my K frames. I have never understood the condition 1 design part. It was designed especially for the US Army I believe, and their mode of carry was not condition 1, but with an empty chamber.

Anyway, your other points are very valid and I agree with them. I don't carry my 1911 so it doesn't matter to me about condition of carry, I just never understood why you hear 1911 folks talking about the dangers of lowering a hammer on a live round and you don't hear that talk about other guns.

 

[OKFC05]

I just never understood why you hear 1911 folks talking about the dangers of lowering a hammer on a live round and you don't hear that talk about other guns.

We cover it in hunter safety when talking about old lever rifles. They should not be carried with hammer down on a live round either, and can fire if dropped.

 

[stiab]

We cover it in hunter safety when talking about old lever rifles. They should not be carried with hammer down on a live round either, and can fire if dropped.

Right, the proper way to carry is at half cock. But with those rifles you still have to lower the hammer manually in many situations, no way around it.