Fastbolt, Thanx for all the input. We are in touch with the guys at Smith with this issue. The jam you described in your commander is exactly the jam we were having. They fixed this by strengthing up the extractor spring tension. Probably a little to much which is causing a failure to go into battery. We found a couple of older extractors which had a different cut to them (Still out of S&W 1911's) and that seemed to solve the failure to go into battery problem. We started a replacement program for springs every quarter when we qualify. The novak mags that originally came with our guns cracked at the feed lips on the back of the mag. S&W replaced them with Wilsons. I can not say enough good things about the folks at Smith. Other teams in my area went with other brands of 1911's and they have their own problems. They DO NOT get the same supporrt we have been getting from S&W.
De nada.
Just out of curiosity, were you using the blue or nickel ACT's (also imported and sold as Novak mags)? The reason I ask is that one vendor of them said that back a few years ago they were getting reports of cracked lips (right side at rear of lip), but it seemed as though it was only in one of the finishes. They were speculating the difference might be related to something in the heat treating. So far, the newer mags don't seem to be generating those sort of complaints from what I've heard from that vendor, as well as the QC guy at S&W who examines returned parts.
I'm not surprised they still have some Wilson mags at hand, either. It's amazing what they can often come up with when it comes to parts.
Yep, the folks at S&W are very, very helpful when given the opportunity. They aren't bashful about trying to get the right people on the problem, are they?
The part number for the pair of extractor springs used in the SW1911 are those of a couple of springs used in the 3rd gen guns (big surprise). The last SW1911 extractors I received are the same part numbers as the black extractor for the 4006TSW (which isn't surprising as the SW1911 original extractor was adopted from the .40 3rd gen gun, as I recall).
I'll have to ask what further enhancements are being considered for the SW1911 extractor. It wouldn't surprise me to see them revise the extractor's hook in some manner.
Here's an image of a pair of new SW1911 extractors (spare parts/unused). It shows a pair of identical extractors from slightly different angles to try and better display the beveled cut on the hooks. Pardon the lint fibers all over them and the less-than-great camera and photography. You can see the bevel machined into the bottom of the hook, as well as the relieved lower corner of the extractor hook's edge. This was introduced into the 3rd gen .40 extractors some time ago. Did your existing extractors or the 'older ones' have this relief cut? Or, maybe you came up with a different revision with different hook cut/machining in the form of the 'older' extractors. I'm not sure because I no longer have the used parts, but I thought I might've seen a slightly different angle on the beveled cut which didn't reach into the adjustment pad surface quite so far. Maybe I'm just remembering some stainless extractors which looked different for reason of the different finish, or a slight difference in the secondary cut in a different production run ... or maybe I was just using different reading glasses at the time.
Who knows? S&W will send you all the springs and new extractors as warranty replacement/repair parts that you may require, though, and at no charge. If your armorer doesn't already have an extractor bar gauge for the SW1911 slide I'm betting they'll get you one on short order, too (although you usually have to pay for tools, of course).
Sometimes you can run into a case rim dimension tolerance variance, too. When we were first experiencing some failures-to-feed with some small number of original SW99 .40's, the S&W rep told us of another agency who had been experiencing the same problem. We were also using the same contract ammunition.
We were later told that S&W was unable to duplicate the feeding problems with the other agency's guns using a selection of different common factory ammunition often favored by their LE customers. That being the case, they next asked for some of the exact ammunition being used at the agency, which the agency sent to them, and then tried that in the guns back at the factory. They observed the same feeding issues at that point.
The rep said the problem was considered to have apparently been two-fold.
First, there were some really variable velocities recorded with that specific contract ammunition. We're talking .40 S&W 180gr JHP's producing velocities down into the 700's fps range. Imagine the potential for slide speed & travel, as well as feeding 'timing', issues to occur with really reduced velocities.
The other thing mentioned was that the case rim dimensions were on the 'very generous' end of expected tolerances, unlike other ammunition they had used to test their guns. Well, is it exactly surprising that some occasional unexpected tolerance variation may occur when you buy really low cost bulk ammunition?
The rep said S&W decided it was easier to approach the case rim tolerance issue by requesting a slight revision of the extractors so they would be less affected by similar case rim variations. From what we were told, this basically meant the extractors started receiving a better polish/finish (Walther part).
I'm just saying that sometimes an ammunition variation may be less surprising to encounter among the less costly lines than among the premium lines. If this happens at the same time a spring starts to reach the end of its optimal service life then things can become both interesting and annoying.
Whatever the case may be, I'm glad to hear you're getting the issue addressed and resolved. S&W will help. They generally won't blame the shooter's grip.
You're right about the other makers having their own issued, too. I get to see quite a few of the different name brand 1911-style pistols come through qualification courses-of-fire. Some seem to do well overall, some okay, and some I simply tell the owner to call the company and have them resolve their problems. I may be a Colt Model O Pistol armorer, but there are some makes/models of 1911's on today's market with which I would just rather not deal when they have problems ...
I'm a bit selective on the brands of 1911's on which I'm willing to spend my own money.
I'm actually thinking about buying another SW1911 sometime.
I have a SW1911SC 5" which has been an excellent gun (aside from a burr on one part of the slide rail which marred part of a frame rail and having to slightly drift adjust the front sight post). Reliable with different brands of issued duty loads and as accurate as might be wished for something other than a target pistol. The trigger came crisp, smooth and predictable. The weight is a bit on the heavier end, averaging slightly over 5 1/2", but I actually don't mind that in a 1911 used as a working/off-duty/retirement weapon.
I'm torn between the new SW1911 3" Pro Series or a PC model, as well as a M&P 45c (to complement my excellent M&P 45 FS w/thumb safeties). Not sure why I really need a 10th & 11th .45 pistol ... but there you go.
