Is a Custom CZ As Good As a Sig Legion SAO?

[James&theGiant1911]

But it's my thread. And anyway, that's one of the reasons I like the Nighthawk. While I could care less if it's rollmarked FN or Browning, I am concerned getting a used clone and having to spend money junking bad and/or substandard parts before starting on what I really want.

Now, if Nighthawk would drop some features for a lower price, I'd buy one and go through layaway. As it is, if I find a used one, I'll jump it like it's hot. Almost every custom I see on Gunbroker, the buyer wants some ludicrous price.

That Legion is sweet, I would not mind buying it just for the ability to get into the Sig backdoor site. That would be the sweetest part of it. I assuming you got the coin and case as well.

 

[WVSig]

But it's my thread. And anyway, that's one of the reasons I like the Nighthawk. While I could care less if it's rollmarked FN or Browning, I am concerned getting a used clone and having to spend money junking bad and/or substandard parts before starting on what I really want.

Now, if Nighthawk would drop some features for a lower price, I'd buy one and go through layaway. As it is, if I find a used one, I'll jump it like it's hot. Almost every custom I see on Gunbroker, the buyer wants some ludicrous price.

This does not make sense to me. Nighthawk is buying a complete gun from Browning/FN and scrapping the fire controls, the sights etc... They are literally throwing away NIB parts. If the frame, slide and barrel are in excellent to condition on a Browning/FN pistol not a clone who cares about the other parts. If you are going bespoke custom you are getting rid of all of them anyway.

Plus if they are factory Browning/FN parts they are not bad parts. They are not junk. Not every BHP needs to be a custom. I keep my take off parts because you never know when you might need a factory sear for a stock BHP in the safe.

You seem to be confused as to the quality and origin of Browning/FN parts. There are clones out there as well but when it comes to the genuine article they are pretty good. Its kind of like taking a stock Colt Govt and sending it to Yost. It is just a different philosophy to achieve a custom pistol.

If you like the Nighthawk semi custom off the shelf approach awesome. I would give them a call and see if they can make a custom BHP for you. From what I have heard they will not. They are basically making this one configuration.

 

[James&theGiant1911]

^ Nighthawk does custom work on 1911s then I am sure they will on the BHP as well. I will let you know for sure when I do the complete tour of their facilities and drop off my 1911.

 

[WVSig]

^ Nighthawk does custom work on 1911s then I am sure they will on the BHP as well. I will let you know for sure when I do the complete tour of their facilities and drop off my 1911.

No customization of the BHP from Nighthawk. You can change the color of the Cera Kote and you can choose from wood or VZ grips. They are using new MKIIIs from Browning/FN for the base gun. This was verified by a simply phone call to their sales department. No tour necessary.

 

[James&theGiant1911]

No customization of the BHP from Nighthawk. You can change the color of the Cera Kote and you can choose from wood or VZ grips. They are using new MKIIIs from Browning/FN for the base gun. This was verified by a simply phone call to their sales department. No tour necessary.

funny, I bet I could get them to do one for me.

stick with Graithwaite, you sound like his type of guy.

 

[WVSig]

funny, I bet I could get them to do one for me.

stick with Graithwaite, you sound like his type of guy.

Yeah maybe they make exceptions for "special" people. I find it absurd that you are actually bad mouthing Mr. Garthwaite and you can't even spell his name correctly. He is a very easy to work with. Talked with him today about how to proceed with my current build. It was a pleasure.

 

[James&theGiant1911]

Yeah maybe they make exceptions for "special" people. I find it absurd that you are actually bad mouthing Mr. Garthwaite and you can't even spell his name correctly. He is a very easy to work with. Talked with him today about how to proceed with my current build. It was a pleasure.

Good for you, I could care less about that guy and his business I am sure he just loves the northeastern peps. I live like a few hours away from Nighthawk. So it is not a big deal to me, I have a lot better shop just a few hours a way so I don't have to deal with peps like that or his attitude. Just came off to me like he had more than enough business and acted liked he did not want to do it. So I sent it to Novaks and I have sold every Novaks piece for as much as or more than what I paid for it. Not sure if you could do that with his shop. Not saying you could not but more than likely probably not.

 

[WVSig]

Good for you, I could care less about that guy and his business I am sure he just loves the northeastern peps. I live like a few hours away from Nighthawk. So it is not a big deal to me, I have a lot better shop just a few hours a way so I don't have to deal with peps like that or his attitude. Just came off to me like he had more than enough business and acted liked he did not want to do it. So I sent it to Novaks and I have sold every Novaks piece for as much as or more than what I paid for it. Not sure if you could do that with his shop. Not saying you could not but more than likely probably not.

Sometimes it is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool vs opening your mouth and removing all doubt. LOL

Ask the guys at Novak what they think of Mr. Garthwaite. Ask the guys at Nighthawk. He is on the APG board of directors, he was 2004 pistolsmith of the year. He has been building 1911s and BHPs since the late 70s and you are really badmouthing him?

You remind me of school in summer time. No class.... Maybe there is a reason he did not take your job. Nighthawk makes a nice pistol. They are not my style but they are excellent guns. I guess that is the difference between you and me. I can still respect someone whose work I would not necessarily purchase myself. I also understand that one man shops like Yost, Garthwaite, Williams and Harrison have long waiting lists because they are good at what they do. They are not multiple smith production shops like Les Baer, Wilson, Guncrafters, Novak, Nighthawk etc... but they bring something to the table. They are true bespoke pistol craftsman that make one gun at a time. They have more work than they can handle but they take pride in being the only one to work on every pistol that leaves their shop.

Clearly that is not your bag which is fine but why bad mouth a well respected smith?

PS I am not located in the NE LOL.

 

[James&theGiant1911]

Sometimes it is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool vs opening your mouth and removing all doubt. LOL

Ask the guys at Novak what they think of Mr. Garthwaite. Ask the guys at Nighthawk. He is on the APG board of directors, he was 2004 pistolsmith of the year. He has been building 1911s and BHPs since the late 70s and you are really badmouthing him?

You remind me of school in summer time. No class.... Maybe there is a reason he did not take your job.

Did I bad mouth him, I just told you that he did not want to do work for me. I could care less if he founded the APG (whatever that is), He has his business, and he did not want to do my pistol. I could care less the reasons or why, maybe he was busy or just woke up on the wrong side of the bed. I will never call him, and ask him to do anything to any of my guns anytime ever. So, all you BS about removing all doubt or whatever is just well, stupid. He is not the be all end all as far as custom guns. Lots of shops out there do good work.

I am lucky to have Wilson and Nighthawk customs close by. I enjoy the gun collecting hobby and information. However, I am opinionated and sometimes that comes through. I meant no disrespect to his work or his shop. He has a business, and he can run it like he wants just like Novak's is not taking in any more 1911s at the current time. They have their business and it is enough to make them a set number of money and they want no more. No sweat off me, I would rather do business closer to me anyway.

and as far as one pistol, one smith. Nighthawk does that and every gun that leaves their shop has a certification letter from that smith.

Good Luck with your pistols.

 

[DanHend]

This does not make sense to me. Nighthawk is buying a complete gun from Browning/FN and scrapping the fire controls, the sights etc... They are literally throwing away NIB parts.

And I'm fine with that. I'd prefer it more if they made their own slides/frames, but they're sticking their necks out a little bit and testing the water.

If the frame, slide and barrel are in excellent to condition on a Browning/FN pistol not a clone who cares about the other parts. If you are going bespoke custom you are getting rid of all of them anyway.

For Browning/FN, I'm less concerned. From a clone, I'm less sure. What I'd really prefer is Browning to do a few things to modernize the Hi Power so I wouldn't need to do a ton of custom work to it. If I send a gun out, I'd prefer a gunsmith to do some fine tuning instead of a full redo.

Plus if they are factory Browning/FN parts they are not bad parts. They are not junk. Not every BHP needs to be a custom. I keep my take off parts because you never know when you might need a factory sear for a stock BHP in the safe.

If you like the Nighthawk semi custom off the shelf approach awesome. I would give them a call and see if they can make a custom BHP for you. From what I have heard they will not. They are basically making this one configuration.

They won't right now. According to the Nighhawk Rep on 1911forum, they're focused on getting this initial order finished and see how they do. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. Hopefully it works out for them and the line expands. Until then, I can wait.