1911 Long Range Loading (200m)

pokute

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BIG FAT WARNING - WHILE THE LOAD I DISCUSS BELOW IS BELOW THE MAXIMUM PUBLISHED BY LYMAN, THERE IS NO GUARANTEE THAT IT WILL NOT BLOW UP YOUR GUN, BLOW YOUR FINGERS OFF, OR KILL YOU!

Hi Folks,

I've been convinced for some time that the 1911 could not be made to shoot with consistent accuracy beyond 100m (110 yards for the metrically challenged).

I have two 1911's that I have incrementally accurized until they shot good enough at 100m to equal the accuracy of my K-22 at that range. Both guns can do that with a 12BHN 0.451 200gr HG68 bullet over 5gr of Bullseye.

I noticed that a large percentage of my fired cases had a smear of lead and powder residue along the side, extending at least halfway down the case. I picked up a couple of thousand fired cases at the range, and saw that a lot of other folks were getting the same thing (to the degree that they were shooting lead). There was also gradual buildup of hard lead bearing fouling in corners near the breech face on both guns. Clearly, something less than ideal was going on.

What I decided was that the 45ACP case had become so sturdy due to efforts to prevent blowout from unsupported chambers, that the pressure generated by common loads is insufficient to properly seal the case in the chamber (of course, a good smith could chamber a barrel tight enough to obviate this, and there are probably tight factory barrels that seal properly - My barrels are both factory match fitted barrels - One from Springfield, one from Colt - They don't seal).

A recent Lyman loading manual suggested that the HG68 could be loaded with up to 6gr of Bullseye without excessive pressure. I decided to go for 5.5gr and see what happened.

First thing to note was that brass was thrown about twice as far as with a 5.0gr load. The gun was tuned to throw 6 feet right and 6 feet back. The 5.5gr load sent it about 12 feet right and 8 feet back. There were no high pressure indications. Recoil was only very slightly more than with 5.0gr and less than from factory ball. The shok-buf in the gun showed normal wear patterns after 130 rounds.

What happened was that the cases now seal 90% of the time, and that I can get good repeatable accuracy out to 200m. I knocked down 2 lightly set ram silhouettes (5MOA) with ~3 foot holdover.

Accuracy at 50m and 100m was superb, with a drop of about 6 inches at 100m when sighted to 50m.

Sorry, I don't have a chrony because I tend to chase the chrony if I use one - It's too much of a distraction for me to handle.

Comments, please. Please try to avoid reminding me that W231 is a better powder than Bullseye. I know it is, I'm just stupid that way, and no matter how many times you say it, it won't make an impression - Did I forget to mention that at 5.5gr Bullseye burns very clean? ;)
 
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I wonder what kind of velocity and pressure that's producing :-O Ive been stuck at 4.4 gr forever.Thats some good shooting!
 
Comments about what? It sounds like you did just fine. You can swap powders, primers and etc, or change alloys for your bullets if you're OCD with precision accuracy, like I am, but there is no guarantee that you'll notice any improvement, even if there is any. Sometimes it's too small to measure.

I didn't know 231 was "better" than Bullseye either, should I change back?
 
@Arjay: I shoot silhouette competitively, and there's no chance of me being able to compete unlimited with the huge number of champion shooters in my club, so I shoot standing open sight field pistol to avoid embarrassment.

@Jellybean: I'm hoping to hear from someone else who is shooting 1911 long range often. I don't know anybody else who does it.
 
Now I see pokute, my local range only went out to 100 yards. I shot every handgun I had from .22 lr to .50 AE on it, and tried to get them to go further back, but it was state owned and operated and wasn't worth the politics involved to push the issue.
 
The standard GI load for 230 gr (or 200gr) has been 4.8-5.0 gr of BE forever. Going to 5.5 or so with a 200 gr I do not think is a great leap or dangerous. Just have a heavy recoil spring in the 1911.

Was is the drop at 100 yards? I looked at some tables but unknown what powder? 3-4 inches or so??:confused:

I like HP 38 and use it but it's not better than BE in the 45 ACP. It's good, lets call it a tie

I use BE in the 45 ACP and gads even the 38 Special;)
 
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That's great news for those that have a 1911 and want to try it if they have a 200 yardage for them.
Hitting a target at 220m is sweet with the .45 cal !! I was seeing the bullet in my mind as it went down range.........
then you mentioned the 3 ft hold over.

I do the same thing at my range with my .357 magnum, since I do not have a 45 any more. At 200 yards it is a full 1/2 front sight in elevation for most of my loads.
Definitely need some good eye sight and steady hands at that range.
Had to be nice to find a load that will almost seal the brass to not only shoot better but clean things up, also.

Is 5.8 grs in the works for that custom pistol ?
 
@Rule3: The drop from 50m to 100m was about 6 inches. I'm not on a rest so it could be a little more or less.

@Nevada Ed: If I was shooting new brass and could mic it accurately I might go for 5.8 to get a little flatter trajectory, but I shoot mixed range brass, so I can't really judge the pressure effects well enough to want to push it. Since the bullet flight is clearly stable to 200m with 5.5gr, I'm happy.

I use a Merit Optical attachment on a pair of glasses with a prescription that puts the front sight on a 1911 in sharp focus... Otherwise I couldn't even find the target. I squeeze one of those spring grip things for a few minutes before I start shooting, it seems to stabilize the fingers and even the arms. The Pachmayr rubber wraparound grips with the metal plates in them, combined with an EGW Tungsten FLGR keep the gun from flying around.

If I could just stop drinking that one cup of coffee in the morning...
 
Now I see pokute, my local range only went out to 100 yards. I shot every handgun I had from .22 lr to .50 AE on it, and tried to get them to go further back, but it was state owned and operated and wasn't worth the politics involved to push the issue.

Yeah, we are damn lucky to have a 200m private club range. There's a bunch of old guys in the club who have been national champions. They shoot unlimited out to 200m and hit 39 or 40 out of 40 regularly. Scary. They shoot mostly TC's and XP100's. They think I'm cracked for shooting a 1911.
 
That's pretty interesting pokute.
I shoot a 1911 45 ACP out to 100 yards quite a bit, but the trajectory is so high that I never went any farther. My favorite load for longer range is a 200 XTP over 8.6 gr of Longshot.
I do shoot my 10mm 1911 at longer ranges, the 10mm with a 180 XTP @ 1200fps shoots flat enough to shoot to 100 yards without any holdover and makes hits in the field much easier.
 
I haven't done this in about 25 years but while I was still on active duty I could take a 1911A1 [the Army's or mine] and hit a 1/2 gal.milk jug at 100 yards almost all day with military ball ammo. The trick was simple,make a vertical mark in the forward edge of the ejection port that lined up with the front sight. Then put the actual front sight on the bottom[six o'clock hold]of the jug and put your ejection port mark in the rear sight notch and squeeze them off. I shot from a back supported sitting position, both hands and pistol locked in between my knees.I won quite a bit of ammo money with that trick from GI s and civilian "experts" that would opine that you were better off throwing ol' slabsides than trying to hit an adversary by shooting it! Longer range shooting with the .45 ACP or .45 AR was pretty well reserved for a S&W Mod.1955 Target revolver or a Ruger .45 Convertible I didn't have access to a 1917 Colt or Smith. Particularly inspiring was a Skeeter Skelton article in Shooting Times ,June 1973 entitled "The Best .45 Autos are Sixguns".A number of "Skeet's" favorite loads were listed and then,of course, working up from there in the Ruger and, to a lesser extent the S&W, brought some pretty amazing results with no bad pressure signs.Unique and AL-7 were the powders of choice in the day. If you can find a copy of that article please let me know where it can be had, and, as always, when building up a load, procede with caution and good sense. Regards, Nick
 
I've done a lot of 100 yd. shooting for fun over the years with good results, but it never occurred to me to try 200 yds.(or meters either)

Where on earth are you picking up thousands of .45acp cases left behind by reloaders??
 
Ahhhh, Soooo..........
Honorable cup of coffee getting to you............

Actually tea can give you a smaller jump start and "White" tea in the morning is actually better for you.

Two cups a day will actually help you loose weigh..........but I am like you...........
and like my fresh ground coffee beans.
"More Double Roast, here" !!
 
I've done a lot of 100 yd. shooting for fun over the years with good results, but it never occurred to me to try 200 yds.(or meters either)

Where on earth are you picking up thousands of .45acp cases left behind by reloaders??

Besides just LOOKING at the other reloaders ejected brass, I bought 2000 dirty cases from a range rat... Er, range officer. I am NOT shagging other reloaders brass!!

I just got back from shooting today, there was a guy shooting 50AE, and LEAVING THE BRASS!
 
Ahhhh, Soooo..........
Honorable cup of coffee getting to you............

Actually tea can give you a smaller jump start and "White" tea in the morning is actually better for you.

Two cups a day will actually help you loose weigh..........but I am like you...........
and like my fresh ground coffee beans.
"More Double Roast, here" !!

I drink tea all day after having my jump-start cup of java in the morning. I haven't noticed any weight loss. In fact, I only ever notice the opposite.
 
That's pretty interesting pokute.
I shoot a 1911 45 ACP out to 100 yards quite a bit, but the trajectory is so high that I never went any farther. My favorite load for longer range is a 200 XTP over 8.6 gr of Longshot.
I do shoot my 10mm 1911 at longer ranges, the 10mm with a 180 XTP @ 1200fps shoots flat enough to shoot to 100 yards without any holdover and makes hits in the field much easier.

I've been shooting a LOT of 44 mag lately, It almost feels like cheating. I've got a load (300gr bullet) that shoots to the same POA at 200m as my normal load at 100m. It's not as much fun as shooting one of my Franken1911's (The Springer now has a flat trigger - And don't worry, I have all the original internals for the Colt socked away, it's not a butcher job like the Springer):

Colt-1975-GCNM_Left-Side.png


1911-With-Aristocrat-Sight_Right-Side.jpg
 
Pokute - Could you explain and/or elaborate the Merit Optical attachment? Better yet, post a picture. I too have been limited by poor eyesight. I had a special pair of shooting glasses made last fall. My left eye lens (dominant) was corrected so the sights of my pistols are very clear and my right eye lens was set at my prescription for distance. This is similar to the first attempts at making bi-focal contacts lenses except we did it in regular eye glasses. You don't have to tilt your head back to get a clear view of the sights. Works very well for me but always looking for improvement.
 
Try a load of H&G 68 cast hard out of pure linotype with 5.2 grains of 700x with a WLP primer in any GI or Win case. Bullet sized to .452. You might be surprised how good it shoots at long range. I know that many think that 700x is too dirty but it works good for me. If you have some the same exact load will work with 452AA with the same results. It's about 900fps out of a 5" barrel government.
 

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