1917 question

[alenworn]

I got nice 1917 with excellent fit and finish the other day. The SN is 125,770 found in 3 locations on the gun (cylinder, butt, under bbl). I believe its been re-barreled as there is a diamond next to the SN under the barrel. There is also a flaming bomb on the left side of frame next to hammer and a "star" on the butt next to the SN

My question is this 1917 does not have the markings - "U.S. Govt Property" under the barrel or does not have the markings "U.S. Army Model 1917" on the butt. But its clearly a 1917.

So to the experts, what does that indicate? Was this a not-issue version, or a post office version?

I will post a pic later.

thanks

 

[mkk41]

Commercial 1917 as discussed here? http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-ejectors-1896-1961/219244-interesting-m1917-commercial.html

 

[nawilson]

Is there any indication that the US property marks have been removed? There was a time that people would grind off the property marks on 1911pistols. I would imagine that 1917s had the same issue.

 

[alenworn]

Is there any indication that the US property marks have been removed? There was a time that people would grind off the property marks on 1911pistols. I would imagine that 1917s had the same issue.

no, nothing has been ground off.

 

[DCWilson]

With the stocks off, is there a factory return date stamp on the left side of the grip frame? (12.27 = December 1927, for example.)

Sounds like a factory refinished Army model (not commercial), but if they cleaned off US ownership markings (assuming this is an action they even provided) why would they leave the flaming bomb on the gun?

Is there a S&W logo on the left side below the cylinder release? Is there a lanyard loop, or a plugged hole in the butt where one used to exist?

 

[bettis1]

alenworn,

Some real puzzles there. It does sound as though the barrel was replaced and renumbered by the Factory. The biggest question is why there is an Ordinance Bomb on the frame and no U. S. Army marking on the butt. If it had been refinished by the Factory, they wouldn't have removed one and left the other. If it had started life as a Commercial variation there would be no Ordinance Bomb and there would be a small S&W logo on the left side of the frame and, of course, no U. S. Army markings.

Is there a refinish date on the left side of the butt frame? Are there any small S#'s or Eagle head on the frame?

Bob

Oops, David beat me to the same questions.
B.

 

[Bill Bates]

Does it have a small Smith and Wesson monogram on the left side of the frame. If it does it is a commercial 1917. It isn't unusual for these to have US inspector stamps on the frames. After the war Smith & Wesson used the leftover remaining frames on normal production revolvers.

 

[bettis1]

As I re-read Charlie Pate's seminal U.S. Handguns of World War II (I refer you specifically to page 68), I think your M1917 may have been an armory rework and re-acceptance. Check closely to see if there is a small SA (Springfield Armory) or RIA (Rock Island Armory) on the right forward frame.

Bob

 

[alenworn]

Thanks for the responses. I want to know as much as I can about this gun.

The date on the left grip frame under the stock is 8 47. The flaming bomb on left side of frame is faint, but you can see it in the pic. Also the barrel doesnt have any other words on it other than on the very top with the patent dates. In other words it does not say S&W D.A. 45, etc.. In fact it doesnt say .45 caliber on it anywhere

Here are the pics.

note the "star" other side of SN

 

[bettis1]

Well, it looks like when the Factory refinished it in 1947 they put the logo on the side plate but just didn't completely remove the Ordinance Bomb.

Bob

 

[alenworn]

Does it have a small Smith and Wesson monogram on the left side of the frame. If it does it is a commercial 1917. It isn't unusual for these to have US inspector stamps on the frames. After the war Smith & Wesson used the leftover remaining frames on normal production revolvers.

Larger S&W monogram is on the right side of frame.

 

[alenworn]

With the stocks off, is there a factory return date stamp on the left side of the grip frame? (12.27 = December 1927, for example.)

Sounds like a factory refinished Army model (not commercial), but if they cleaned off US ownership markings (assuming this is an action they even provided) why would they leave the flaming bomb on the gun?

Is there a S&W logo on the left side below the cylinder release? Is there a lanyard loop, or a plugged hole in the butt where one used to exist?

factory return date is 8 47. Logo on right side, lanyard loop still on the gun

 

[Muley Gil]

Is there evidence of a small S&W emblem stamped under the cylinder release?

Judging by the location of the serial number, it appears to be a commercial 1917 built on a military frame.

 

[Jack Flash]

Thanks for the responses. I want to know as much as I can about this gun. ...

In that spirit, this is when it left the factory (the first time!) ...
"The year of manufacture for serial number 125770 is 1918 (October)."

... informantion available on this website:
U.S. Military Dates of Manufacture

Usually, I don't "quote" pictures, but this one seems to have an inspector's mark. Hard for me to read, but I think it's an eagle head over "S24".

That looks like a really fine revolver.

 

[alenworn]

In that spirit, this is when it left the factory (the first time!) ...
"The year of manufacture for serial number 125770 is 1918 (October)."

... informantion available on this website:
U.S. Military Dates of Manufacture

Usually, I don't "quote" pictures, but this one seems to have an inspector's mark. Hard for me to read, but I think it's an eagle head over "S24".

That looks like a really fine revolver.

Yes I looked at it with a magnifying glass - its an eagle head over S24. So that's an inspectors mark.

I gave $550 for this gun. I hope I did ok. He had 599 on it and gave me a discount.

At first I was a bit disappointed it didnt have the military markings, but i suppose it doesnt matter. I would rather have this one as far as finish than US Military thats beat up.

 

[bettis1]

I think you did quite nicely for a M1917 in that condition for $500. There is nothing there that indicates to me that it is anything but a Factory reconditioned old war horse that has well earned its retirement. It will serve you well either as a representative piece in a collection and/or a fine shooting gun. You should be proud of it.

Bob