1937 Brazilian, spring loaded pin in crane (lots of photos)

[Borderboss]

I just picked up a 1937 Brazilian at a decent price with the intent of doing a snubbie. The Parkerizing looks good but has to be redone as there is pitting under it in the grip frame area. The imprints are decent however, although the Brazilian crest is lighter on the right side than the left. The barrel looks like there's some corrosion in it, and I'll know better after I go through a thorough cleaning process. I'll probably be asking for suggestions on a replacement barrel! The serial number is 195297.

This is the first I've owned of the 1917/1937 model, so I may be asking a dumb question. There's a spring-loaded pin in the crane that looks like it tightens the crane/frame relationship when the cylinder is open. It does this well, as the cylinder doesn't close when the gun is held upside down with the cylinder open. Is this standard for this model?

Here are a bunch of photos with the pin in the crane and the mating depression in the frame shown first.

 

[Kansasgunner]

Hi Borderboss,
Neat old 1917! The spring loaded pin is to hold the cylinder open for reloading. It's a common feature on prewar guns.

 

[Borderboss]

Hi Borderboss,
Neat old 1917! The spring loaded pin is to hold the cylinder open for reloading. It's a common feature on prewar guns.

Thanks Tim. It shocked the heck out of me when I removed the cylinder from the frame and the pin went scooting across my bench.

Do you know if the spring comes out easily or is it held in by something? I want to make sure not to lose it.

 

[BC38]

FWIW, I wouldn't refinish that one. The Parkerized finish may not be perfect, but it is WAY better than what is seen on most Brazilians. Compared to most, that one looks like it has had a REALLY easy life! A lot of them saw hard use, and then got piled into oil drums to be re-imported. That one looks like it has been very gently treated compared to most.
It is normal for the Brazilian crest to be somewhat lightly stamped. It is a large, very intricate roll mark and producing a deep, sharp, clear roll mark like that is a pretty tall order.
If that one were mine, I'd be one happy camper, because even if its finish isn't original, the rest of it is. So I wouldn't do a thing to it - other than keep it well oiled and shoot it often.
BTW, the spring is just inserted into the drilled hole in the frame - it should lift out pretty easily with a dental pick or similar tool. Though it may be kind of "glued" in there with old sticky oil residues. Spray it with some carb cleaner or Kroil or whatever solvent you like if it is stuck, and it should just lift right out.
Here is a picture of my Brazilian. It has had the barrel shortened and a non-standard front sight added. Still a great shooter, but not even close to being as original as yours. I have since put some decent looking wood stocks on it to replace the hideous (but functional) Hogue finger-groove mono-grip it is wearing in these photos from when I bought it.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

You are lucky to still have the hold open pin and spring. The gun has had a refinish since it shipped to Brazil and usually these pens and springs are lost. I think it looks pretty good for one of the Brazilians and you will have difficulty finding a replacement barrel. It took me over a year of constant looking to find a barrel for my Brazilian snubby that had the front locking lug damaged. I'm pretty sure the rust can be cleaned off and the gun will function for a long time. Congratulations!

 

[Mbrgr1]

I use..........

a good old fashioned round wood toothpick to pull the spring out, just turn it and the spring locks on and comes right out!


I also usually re-tension the spring a little as well.


An old world feature I really like, I wish they had kept it!

 

[StrawHat]

So far you have been given much good advice. The phosphate finish is relatively new. They were shipped in various blue finishes. The crest is often stamped lighter on one side than the other. I find them stamped lighter on the cylinder side of the side plate most often. Not sure why?

Barrel? Good luck! They have not been made, by anyone, for decades. Finding one now will be a matter of luck. I grab them when I see them. Now, if all you want is an ACP barrel, any of the N frame ACP barrels will fit. Some will need more work than others, but they all share the same threads.

I have several ACP revolvers. They all can be made to shoot well. I have found lead bullets with long bearing surfaces at hardball speeds perform the best. Jacketed bullets, I shoot hardball but all of them should work.

The cylinder hold open was a great idea and used in the Model 1917 and others. I ALWAYS dissemble a new revolver inside of a very large zip lock bag so that any spring loaded bits stay close by. Much easier than crawling around looking for the odd part on my shop floor. Especially since it escaped at high speed and I may not know what it looks like!

I do not find your serial number in the database. Close ones shipped in 1938 but that specific number has not been entered.

Kevin

 

[Inland7-45]

M1937 finish

FWIW, I wouldn't refinish that one. The Parkerized finish may not be perfect, but it is WAY better than what is seen on most Brazilians. Compared to most, that one looks like it has had a REALLY easy life! A lot of them saw hard use, and then got piled into oil drums to be re-imported. That one looks like it has been very gently treated compared to most.
It is normal for the Brazilian crest to be somewhat lightly stamped. It is a large, very intricate roll mark and producing a deep, sharp, clear roll markings like that is a pretty tall order.
If that one were mine, I'd be one happy camper, and I wouldn't do a thing to it - other than keep it well oiled and shoot it often.
BTW, the spring is just inserted into the drilled hole in the frame - it should lift out pretty easily with a dental pick or similar tool. Though it may be kind of "glued" in there with old sticky oil residues. Spray it with some carb cleaner or Kroil or whatever solvent you like if it is stuck, and it should just lift right out.

I bought mine in 1990. Lots of original finish and color on hammer and triggers but the surface has a lot of nicks. It is a great shooter and I never saw any advantage to modifying or refinishing. Mine shoots great with 200gr SWC and s light charge of Unique in a .45AR case.

I also vote to keep this one as is and enjoy shooting some cast bullet reloads.

 

[steelslaver]

Bic lighters and click ball point pins are my go to on small springs.

 

[Borderboss]

Thanks very much for all the great information about the gun. I'll know more about the condition of the barrel after I scrub it pretty thoroughly.

Outside of the pitting on the grip frame and what could be yuckiness in the barrel, the gun does seem to have been treated pretty well. All the parts match, so it wasn't refinished in a batch and slapped back together with mismatched parts.

 

[Borderboss]

So far you have been given much good advice. The phosphate finish is relatively new. They were shipped in various blue finishes. The crest is often stamped lighter on one side than the other. I find them stamped lighter on the cylinder side of the side plate most often. Not sure why?

Barrel? Good luck! They have not been made, by anyone, for decades. Finding one now will be a matter of luck. I grab them when I see them. Now, if all you want is an ACP barrel, any of the N frame ACP barrels will fit. Some will need more work than others, but they all share the same threads.

I have several ACP revolvers. They all can be made to shoot well. I have found lead bullets with long bearing surfaces at hardball speeds perform the best. Jacketed bullets, I shoot hardball but all of them should work.

The cylinder hold open was a great idea and used in the Model 1917 and others. I ALWAYS dissemble a new revolver inside of a very large zip lock bag so that any spring loaded bits stay close by. Much easier than crawling around looking for the odd part on my shop floor. Especially since it escaped at high speed and I may not know what it looks like!

I do not find your serial number in the database. Close ones shipped in 1938 but that specific number has not been entered.

Kevin

This crest is lighter on the cylinder side as well.

On barrels, I was thinking any N-Frame .45ACP barrel if I need to because of corrosion, in which case I'll move forward with the customization to a snub. But this one is a nice gun overall, so I'm waffling for sure.

For ammo, I don't reload .45 ACP, so it'll get a diet of commercial hardball and possibly non-Plus-P hollow points.

Please do update your database on the number if you like. All the parts match that number, so it seems to be original. I assumed this gun was part of the second shipment to Brazil.

 

[rct269]

The "cylinder hold open" spring/plunger was found on all pre-war N frames that I know of---at least all those with adjustable sights---right up to early 1940's---also on (again at least) some K frame targets---presumably for the same period. I say presumably because the latest pre-war K frame target I had was 1936.

I'm very pleased to hear about a plunger shooting across the room. We've been cautioned about such for as long as I can remember, and this is the first one I know about where it actually happened. All my guns were high condition examples, but I had to physically remove the plunger---and then fish the spring out with a dental pick---no exceptions! Victims of minimal lubrication perhaps.

As an aside, pipe cleaners are the hot set-up for cleaning the hole---just keep at it until one comes out clean. Then, just maybe, yours will fly across the room too!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Wiregrassguy]

I like the looks of a phosphate finished Brazilian. Somehow, it complements a military weapon. This one is all original, including the grips. How the grips survived in such terrific shape is beyond me. (EDIT: Lest anyone misunderstand, this Brazilian was refinished in phosphate. It left the factory blued.)

 

[handejector]

Round Top or Flat Top?
Smooth or checkered grips? Are they numbered to the gun?

 

[handejector]

This one is all original, including the grips. How the grips survived in such terrific shape is beyond me. (EDIT: Lest anyone misunderstand, this Brazilian was refinished in phosphate. It left the factory blued.)

Guy,
Are you saying the grips are numbered to the gun?
Is it a round top or flat top?

 

[Borderboss]

Round Top or Flat Top?
Smooth or checkered grips? Are they numbered to the gun?

Mine came with Pachmayr grips, so the originals are long gone.

 

[handejector]

Is the top of the frame flat or rounded?
A pic would be good.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Guy,
Are you saying the grips are numbered to the gun?
Is it a round top or flat top?

Lee, no. The grips don't number to the gun. They are in the 180K SN range and the gun is 202K and a flat top. Sorry for my poor phraseology. They are period correct for the 1937 1917.

 

[Borderboss]

Is the top of the frame flat or rounded?
A pic would be good.

Lee, this is the best photo I have at hand. I'll take a better one when I get home. I think this would be considered rounded from what I can see.

 

[Hondo44]

The best thing about the pre war "cyl hold open detent" is that it's so easy to add to a later revolver that doesn't have that feature. Original parts are available but also simple to cut pin stock to length and substitute a spring.

 

[StrawHat]

Lee, this is the best photo I have at hand. I'll take a better one when I get home. I think this would be considered rounded from what I can see.

Lee is asking about the sight groove I believe. Most of the first shipment were the Model 1917 Commercial and had the square notch rear sight. Those built on the leftover WWI frames had the round notch rear sight.

Here is an image of the square rear sight.

Kevin

 

[StrawHat]

I seem to have misplaced the image for the Historical Letter concerning the Brazilian Model. Does anyone have one they could share?

Mine came from Val Forgett, if I remember correctly, he copied the one he paid for and sent them to the buyers of the 1917s imported by Service Armament.

Kevin

 

[Borderboss]

Is the top of the frame flat or rounded?
A pic would be good.

Here's the best I can seem to do with my setup right now. I hope it helps.

 

[Borderboss]

Lee is asking about the sight groove I believe. Most of the first shipment were the Model 1917 Commercial and had the square notch rear sight. Those built on the leftover WWI frames had the round notch rear sight.

Here is an image of the square rear sight.

Kevin

Mine has a square notch.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

That's a flat top. The little flat areas on either side of the trough are later manufacture. The WWI 1917s did not have that flat area. Maybe these pictures can illustrate.

 

[Hondo44]

That's a flat top. The little flat areas on either side of the trough are later manufacture. The WWI 1917s did not have that flat area. Maybe these pictures can illustrate.

Just so no one gets confused, the nickeled example which is a round top frame has had it's tiny U notch rear sight filed square before it was plated.

Round tops have the U notch and flat tops have the square notch.

An unmolested rd top U notch:

Photo by Tenntex32

 

[Borderboss]

That's a flat top. The little flat areas on either side of the trough are later manufacture. The WWI 1917s did not have that flat area. Maybe these pictures can illustrate.

Thanks very much for the explanation!

 

[VaTom]

The best thing about the pre war "cyl hold open detent" is that it's so easy to add to a later revolver that doesn't have that feature. Original parts are available but also simple to cut pin stock to length and substitute a spring.

Great advice in this thread and others regarding 1917 cylinder hold open detent. I bought my 1917 Commercial (late 1920's model) at a local auction in 2016. It had been refinished in the past sometime and along the way it's the spring and detent plunger pin were lost. Following advice of members I made a new pin from a drill bit shank and used the flint spring from a BIC lighter. Took a bit to get the spring the right length and the pin shaped and polished but it works.

Thanks for alll the expert advice!

 

[StrawHat]

Many on this forum know that I sort of like the 4", 45 ACP, N frame revolver. The problem is, before the introduction of the ACP Mountain Gun and the Model 22-4, they were very rare to scarce. So, what to do?

Indeed, you build your own! The first one I shot was in the 70's and I liked it. I built my first one in the late 70s or early 80s. I cut the barrel and sweated on a cut nickel for the front sight. That one, and the next 5 or 6 I built, got sold or traded off when the right deal came along.

The one pictured is still in my possession and likely will remain with me.

I still carry it on occasion but my edc is a 4" Model 22-4. A modern rendition of my old warhorse.

Kevin

 

[deyomatic]

Here's mine...