1957 Sistema Colt Arrives

[Justin T]

I spent a few Trumpy dollars on a Sistema Colt 1911 I found on another forum. I got to bring ‘em home today and am pleased with my find. The finish outside is awful, with a bashed up rear sight and mainspring housing. However, those can be fixed. Inside is a different story. All numbers match on this gun. Springs are fresh, all internals look as they should, and all the safeties work without any sort of pushoff. Slide to frame fit is very good with no perceptible play or rattling.

For those not in the know, Sistema Colts were made in Argentina from the 1940’s thru the 1960’s. They were made on Colt-supplied tooling, by workers trained by Colt, to Colt drawings that were current in 1927. For all intents and purposes, this pistol is nearly identical to a late 1920’s Colt 1911.

The person I bought it from did not cause the damage seen in the pictures. This was a milsurp tossed in a crate with many others like it. He cared for it and shot it, using an aftermarket trigger. I plan to re-install it, as there doesn’t appear to be anything wrong with it. The mag is junk, but I’m good with that. I’m quite glad he saved all the original parts and sent those along with a spare barrel. Yeah, it’s beat up, but it will be welcomed here as I have many firearms that look rough, but run good, and love em all.

I’m a sucker for an ol’ dog, and I’m glad I could offer this one a home.

 

[Lee Barner]

good pistols. i've had a couple in the past and they shot and functioned well. that 1911 style hammer will "bite" you once in a while. i have permanent scar tissue from 1911s. lee

 

[texmex]

Good candidate for a refinish. How about nickle with some nice grips and turn it from a beater to a barbeque gun?

 

[schutzen-jager]

here is mine -

nice catch , they are getting harder to find for sale recently - fit + finish on most rival period Colt standards - got mine in late 1980's when they were first imported - all matching except for the numbered magazines - pristine bore + all internals -

 

[cmansguns]

Lots of research available on these Colt copies

Obviouslt OP you know about the research available on these great 45's cause you know its a 1957. I sold mine several years back to fund more S&W wheel guns. I learned a heck of a lot while researching mine (s/n 26554)….little things like the 1945 serial number range was 24001 to 30000, all cranked out at the brand new (at the time) factory "Domingo Matheu" located in Rosario, Argentina. BTW, that new factory was the first to use the roll stamp 'FMAP".

The last systema Colt was manufactured in 1966 and was serial number 112494.

Mine had a numbered mag, although different s/n (28364) so at least the same year. I got $675 for mine, including the unmarked, solid smooth wooden grips, that appeared to be hand "boned". The black grips were I believe original issue with these guns from the factory.

I think the OP did swell obtaining one of these Colt copies, and I'm not even sure we should call them "copies", more like Colt "sanctioned".

PS I did try the original Coltwood plastic grips on my all correct 1944 Colt 1911A1 and they DID fit, however the grips (Keyes Fiber) from my all correct Remington Rand, AND from my Ithaca did NOT fit. The Coltwoods had what's called "large ring" reinforcement around the grip screws, so I'm thinking that even though all are supposedly made to government drawings, etc. the genuine Colts (and evidently the Systemas) had the center to center distance of the colt bushings....just a whisker tighter (shorter by a few thou) than other 1911A1's.

 

[Justin T]

I’m glad to have caught this one too! The price was quite right. Equal to price paid maybe 15 years ago. Value on better examples have absolutely gone bonkers on these, and I feel a rising tide lifts all boats, right??

I know the finish on the gun is awful. The slide is mostly in the white, and the frame is going fast. I’ve thought about a park job, because these guns went through a refurb process and were parkerized at that point. Mine appears to have escaped refurb, however. Those black plastic grips are true matches for the rest of the gun, so I firmly believe this one is not refurbed.

I do want to change the mainspring housing and rear sight-both of those have been ordered. And the mag is junk-I’ve spoken with several owners who say their magazines tend to hang up or cause difficult extraction. They don’t drop free. I discovered my magazine has a raised spot on one side that doesn’t align with a straight edge, and one of the feed lips has a crack. But that’s okay. I’ll drop it in the “original parts” bag and go with GI mags.

Anyway, I plan on shooting this one a bunch before I decide on a refinish. I figure I have plenty of time to think about finishes.

Thanks for the note about the grips. I’ll pay attention to that.

 

[diyj98]

Nice guns. I ordered two excellent condition all matching numbered guns when these first hit the market. They both moved on years ago though.

 

[LEO918]

I added this all matching including the magazine Sistema to my 1911 collection last December.

 

[schutzen-jager]

I’m glad to have caught this one too! The price was quite right. Equal to price paid maybe 15 years ago. Value on better examples have absolutely gone bonkers on these, and I feel a rising tide lifts all boats, right??

I know the finish on the gun is awful. The slide is mostly in the white, and the frame is going fast. I’ve thought about a park job, because these guns went through a refurb process and were parkerized at that point. Mine appears to have escaped refurb, however. Those black plastic grips are true matches for the rest of the gun, so I firmly believe this one is not refurbed.

I do want to change the mainspring housing and rear sight-both of those have been ordered. And the mag is junk-I’ve spoken with several owners who say their magazines tend to hang up or cause difficult extraction. They don’t drop free. I discovered my magazine has a raised spot on one side that doesn’t align with a straight edge, and one of the feed lips has a crack. But that’s okay. I’ll drop it in the “original parts” bag and go with GI mags.

Anyway, I plan on shooting this one a bunch before I decide on a refinish. I figure I have plenty of time to think about finishes.

Thanks for the note about the grips. I’ll pay attention to that.

all the original grips were checkered wood except last year of production which had the grooved wood Ballester Molina ones - some of the junkers that Sarco sold had U.S. GI plastic grips installed - the only ones that were parkerized were the navy issued ones marked Marina de Argentina - all other Argentine refurbs were done in a dull black - I purchased a dozen original magazines when they were selling them at six for $9.00 , they all still work perfectly in all my different 1911's -

 

[Roberto Renauld]

I have one "Sistema Colt Modelo 1927" by the series number built in 1949, bought new by my father in the 70,it has a trigger job done and hard chromed barrel when new, it is a very ,very accurate gun it rivals my 1911 Remington R1 at the range!!!!!...
RR

 

[JohnRippert]

I picked up one of those from Gander Mountain quite a ways back when they had them for $249. When I took it down I found the hammer and sear were toast. Hammer hooks had worn grooves on the sear. I took that to mean I should use it as a platform to learn how to do some custom work on a 1911. Hah! I ended up messing up the frame fitting a beavertail safety by taking too much off around the thumb safety. Put it away in the closet for a decade and decided recently to spend a little stimulus money on a Caspian frame to retry my custom 1911 project. It should be at my FFL tonight.


As it was when I bought it.

 

[Justin T]

They look like brothers from another mother!

Before shipping and transfer mine came to $300. The extra barrel was another $20.

 

[schutzen-jager]

nteresting pistols with lots of history -

Argentina also purchased model 1911's from Colt starting in 1916 - colt also supplied 10,000 191a1 after WWI till 1927 when production was started at the Estaban de Luca Arsenal in Buenas Aires - production was transferred to F.M.A.P. in Rosario in 1945 where apx. 88,500 were produced till 1966 - little known fact that they were used by Brazilians fighting in Italy during WWII - also late in WWII the U.S. contracted with F.M.A.P. for pistols for use in the war , contracted pistols never delivered + they marked them Gendarmeria Nacional for issue to Argentine border guards - it is also stated that the Argentine production weigh a few ounces more then the Colts due to better steel quality - interesting picture of 1937 Nazi Wehrmacht officer examining a visiting Argentine officers model 1927 - also recall reading that WWII British commandos used Argentine 1927's , Ballester Molina , + Ballester Riquad pistols in WWII -

 

[Justin T]

Agreed definitely lots of interesting history. I wish the tale about the steel coming from the Graf Spee were true.

As it is though, they did make good choices when it came to steel selection and did themselves a favor by hardening the slide stop notch and other key areas.

 

[JH1951]

I am a real fan of the 1911, so I had to add one of the Sistema variety. A few years ago they were a fraction of the cost of a stateside manufactured one; not so much today. The Sistema is every bit as good a shooter as any other Colt 1911 of the same model. Mine cleaned up well and never disappoints when I shoot it (but gotta watch the web flesh, lol).

 

[Gene L]

They're well thought of by those who know 1911s. I'm generally against refinishing old guns, but I'd blue this one in a heartbeat. No reason not to that I can see. I wouldn't nickel it or park it at all; nickel is expensive ($$$) and either one will fill in the lettering. But that's just me. I'd also avoid a lot of buffing. Then, those new grips would look correct.

 

[Roberto Renauld]

British commandos during WWII favored the Ballester Molina and Ballester Rigaud because they said the fact that they didn´t have grip safety made them more reliable in mud and sand!!..... I can say the Ballester Molina HAFDASA (Hispano Argentina Fabrica de Armas Sociedad Anónima) is a very well made .45ACP pistol, very neat and robust!!
RR

 

[Vulcan Bob]

Nice snag! Not a thing in the world wrong with the Sistema Colt Modelo 1927. I have only one in good shape with the military holster. It's of 1954 vintage that makes it a birth year pistol for me. Enjoy that one!

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

When my first "1927" arrived in 1986 or 87, It worked fine, but was filthy! Since I know my way around a 1911, I stripped it down to little parts! The sights were left on the slide and the plunger tube and ejector were left on the frame. It took a few hours and 3 bronze brushes to scrub all the black powder that was packed inside every nook & cranny! I then assembled it, lubed it, and took it out back to test for accuracy. It stove piped, Failed to eject, failed to feed, and occasionally failed to fire! I replaced every spring in the gun including a used extractor and replaced the mag with a brand new US Military mag. It functioned fine after that, but was about 8" at 25 yards. I replace the barrel bushing with a 70 series match "Collet" style bushing. With good ammo it then shot 3" at 25 yards! It was/is my second son's 21st birthday present (he's almost 39 now). The original finish is still in pretty good shape, so it didn't get refinished. I have had 3 or 4 others and none were that filthy! But when put back in order none shot that well either.

The last several 1911's I built and all the 1911's I have to work on "Hammer/Sear engagement", I only use Colt factory or Wilson Combat sears and disconnectors. With different countries tolerances being "whatever", the Colt or Wilson tolerances work EVERY TIME!

Ivan

 

[Justin T]

As you can see above, the gun came with an aftermarket trigger in it and some severe rash on the mainspring housing.

Fortunately, the owner kept all the old parts and sent them with the gun, including the old trigger. I found a correct MSH on another forum.