2 Wad Cutter styles 1 load receipe

[Alk8944]

It seems to me a reversed HBWC set to the same COAL as a non-reversed bullet will have as much less volume in the loaded cartridge as the volume of the new hollow point-old hollow base.

That was not the question! But, There is no reason that if you load a HBWC reversed that it needs to be seated with the hollow base skirt flush with the case mouth. Simply seat them to the maximum LOA for .38 Special of 1.550, this puts the solid end of the bullet at approximately the same seating depth as a standard 158 gr. RNL or LSWC bullet. Now there is no issue with case volume and pressure!

For some reason people seem to assume, as Autonomous has, that if you load a HBWC reversed that it would be seated the same as if loaded normally, flush with the case mouth. There is no reason to do that because it would reduce remaining case volume too much!As a matter of fact, it should NOT be done.

 

[Autonomous]

Relax, you are assuming I assumed.
I meant just what I said, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Alk8944]

Relax, you are assuming I assumed.
I meant just what I said, nothing more, nothing less.

Unless you believed (assumed) that this was the way the reversed HBWC was being loaded then why would it even occur to you to even propose the question? Have you ever seen recommendations anywhere that the reversed HBWC be loaded flush?

 

[Forrest r]

I would be careful with this one!!!!

Typically you can use the same load for a hbwc and a double ended wc with both of them seated flush. It gets interesting when you use a button nosed wc data when reloading a double ended wc.

Look at the oal's of the 2 lyman wc bullets:
358063 1.152" oal max 3.8gr of bullseye
358495 1.317" oal max 4.4gr of bullseye

While it is convenient to use the same powder setting/same die setup to load both hbwc & double ended wc's. They rarely have the same accuracy along with the same poi. You'll be constantly adjusting sights when switching loads. If you're lucky like I was it was only a couple clicks both ways.

Myself, I test loads for a specific bullet. If 2 bullets shoot well with the same load, fantastic.

I carry a snubnosed 44spl at times and typically use hb bullets for sd. I keep the loads at +/- 1000fps.
A 220gr hbwc turned backwards (summer load)

A 210gr swc hp hb (winter load)

 

[gwpercle]

Thank you. I might be an over thinker as least as far as reloading goes.

Appreciate the help.

In reloading there are no "dumb" questions ...
Better Safe Than Sorry ...
If I know the answer I'm always ready and willing to help a fellow reloader ... anytime !
Load Safe,
Gary

 

[BE Mike]

I've shot a lot of .38 SPL loads with both 148 gr. HBWC swaged and solid 148 gr. cast bullets. Both had a charge of 2.7-2.8 grains of Bullseye. Unless you have access to a machine rest and are testing for accuracy at 50 yards, you won't be able to tell the difference.

 

[geeollie]

Lots to think here.
Thank you all for the very helpful conversation.

 

[reddog81]

Interesting. This leads me to wonder if 2.8 gr of BE or equivalent will not provide obturation with a solid base bullet.

The problem is the aerodynamic profile of the bullet and the low velocity. The bullets seal in the bore fine

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

Thank you the further information.

By the by, Bullseye is no longer being made. It seems that every book, reloading website and discussion board all tout loads made with Bullseye.
Seems it was VERY good over a wide range. I am about a year too late.

Hopefully the logjam that keeps Bullseye, Unique and Universal off the shelves will break up some day before long.

I use W231 or BE86 to substitute for Bullseye. Both work for me in 38 Special.

 

[robertrwalsh]

I have loaded a LOT of wadcutter bullets of all three types. I have never felt the need to adjust the load, and it has never caused an issue. Generally speaking people do not load this bullet at the high end of the pressure curve, it is rather at the low end of the pressure curve. Routine variations in the powder charge dropped are probably more significant than this issue.

 

[glenwolde]

Interesting. This leads me to wonder if 2.8 gr of BE or equivalent will not provide obturation with a solid base bullet.

It probably would with a solid base swaged lead bullet like the Hornady 158gr LSWC. But with harder cast bullets I believe it does not. I had the breech end of the barrel leading like a failure to obturate. Bumped up the load and the leading disappeared.

Years ago when I was testing all this I had to get up to 4.0gr of W231 to get the groups to tighten up. After a whole lot of shooting I just decided 4.0gr of W231 was good with any of the heavier bullets in .38 Special. With HBWC 3.0 gr of W231 was my load.

These days I believe 4.0gr is over max for the 158gr cast SWC according to Hodgdon, which is now 3.8gr or something. The Lyman #3, which is what I was working with, had a 4.7gr(?) W231 max as I recall for a 158gr cast SWC. I didn't find anything past 4.0gr to improve accuracy, just velocity.

Having fired many thousands of rounds over forty years at 4.0gr I'm too old to change now. I re-tested it all about 20 years ago and came to the same conclusion.

 

[38SPL HV]

I use W231 or BE86 to substitute for Bullseye. Both work for me in 38 Special.

I really like BE-86 for 1,100 fps 158 gr SWC loads in 357 Magnum. I use 7.0 grs BE-86 for this.

 

[glenwolde]

I would be careful with this one!!!!

Typically you can use the same load for a hbwc and a double ended wc with both of them seated flush. It gets interesting when you use a button nosed wc data when reloading a double ended wc.

Look at the oal's of the 2 lyman wc bullets:
358063 1.152" oal max 3.8gr of bullseye
358495 1.317" oal max 4.4gr of bullseye

While it is convenient to use the same powder setting/same die setup to load both hbwc & double ended wc's. They rarely have the same accuracy along with the same poi. You'll be constantly adjusting sights when switching loads. If you're lucky like I was it was only a couple clicks both ways.

Myself, I test loads for a specific bullet. If 2 bullets shoot well with the same load, fantastic.

...and then modern data just adds to the confusion:

I'll second your "I test loads for a specific bullet. If 2 bullets shoot well with the same load, fantastic."

I never saw a difference with a DEWC vs a BNWC as far as loads go. But I will note I don't seat the BNWC flush to the top band the way shown in the "Effects on Pressure" diagram. I always crimped them in that top groove so I had a bit of the bullet seated out.

Regardless of the current Hodgdon data, I ain't doing that. Even if the bullet did hold together at 900+ fps I know from experience with swaged lead SWC's that's going to lead like crazy.

I guess they no better than we do, but I'm not feeling it.

 

[JonE406]

My current load for the 148-gr HBWC .38 Spl is 2.7 gr of W244
15 rounds fired from 7 yards