.44 special brass dimensions and custom expander design....

[kadams]

Hello folks,

If any of you have experience with .44 special brass and custom expanders I am looking for some info, My bullets are 215gr. hollow base wadcutters sized .4315. My NOE expander expands the cases to .4295 When i seat the bullets in the star line .44 special brass the base of the bullet at the hollow base portion is getting sized down to .429. I'm getting best accuracy at the top end of powder charges in a few different loads I'm thinking I may be missing out on some accuracy. I believe the max powder charges are blowing the hollow base back out and the lesser charges are not achieving obturation? To solve this I'm working on designing a custom expander. I'm wondering if any of you may know how deeply i can expand the case without causing a bump in the case Where the case begins to get thicker? I can only measure the brass wall thickness about .360" deep and the brass thickness is uniform to that depth. I need to get another .130-40" in depth to expand the brass deep enough that it doesn't swage down the hollow base of the bullet. So I need to expand the brass .490-500" deep If any of you have done something similar I would like to know your experience and outcome.

Thankyou for any info.

 

[Alk8944]

Just a suggestion. Try loading without sizing the cases, just bell the case mouth. The .4315 bullet may fit the case well enough without sizing. I have done this in the past. he other possibility is what is the diameter of your cylinder throats? Sizing the bullets to match the throats may solve the issue that concerns you.

 

[jem102]

There may be enough on an M die expander mandrel that a machine shop could turn it to the dimensions you want and reform the bell. They may chamber OK but extraction problems may result especially with heavy loads as you are, in a sense, un-sizing the case. If you have a drill press, are handy with a draw file and sandpaper you could probably turn one out yourself that would be good enough to try and then have one machined if it works for your needs. I don't think the expanders are file hard but they may be.

 

[kadams]

Just a suggestion. Try loading without sizing the cases, just bell the case mouth. The .4315 bullet may fit the case well enough without sizing. I have done this in the past. he other possibility is what is the diameter of your cylinder throats? Sizing the bullets to match the throats may solve the issue that concerns you.

I will try some unsized brass, Thanks for suggestion. The bullets are sized to fit through the cvlinder throats with slight finder pressure so im good there.

 

[kadams]

There may be enough on an M die expander mandrel that a machine shop could turn it to the dimensions you want and reform the bell. They may chamber OK but extraction problems may result especially with heavy loads as you are, in a sense, un-sizing the case. If you have a drill press, are handy with a draw file and sandpaper you could probably turn one out yourself that would be good enough to try and then have one machined if it works for your needs. I don't think the expanders are file hard but they may be.

I have a machinist that will cut the expander to my specs. I'm just trying to insure my specs will be functional and not cause other problems.

 

[kadams]

Just a suggestion. Try loading without sizing the cases, just bell the case mouth. The .4315 bullet may fit the case well enough without sizing. I have done this in the past. he other possibility is what is the diameter of your cylinder throats? Sizing the bullets to match the throats may solve the issue that concerns you.

I just tried seating a couple dummy rds. for a test with no primer they seat fine and when pulled have not swaged the bases!!!, the rounds cycle in the revolver with no issues hopefully the crimp will keep them from walking out when firing I am only shooting them about 850FPS, What was your experience after the second firing do they expand larger again under the pressure of firing and need to be resized? after a second firing? Thanks for the tip I will at least get to check on the accuracy of the unswaged bases without buying the custom expander to find out.

 

[Dan W. Cady]

I just tried seating a couple dummy rds. for a test with no primer they seat fine and when pulled have not swaged the bases!!!, the rounds cycle in the revolver with no issues hopefully the crimp will keep them from walking out when firing I am only shooting them about 850FPS, What was your experience after the second firing do they expand larger again under the pressure of firing and need to be resized? after a second firing? Thanks for the tip I will at least get to check on the accuracy of the unswaged bases without buying the custom expander to find out.

Watch the pressure with hollow base bullets. It's possible to blow the skirts off the bullet and and they will be left in the barrel. Barrel obstruction.

 

[kadams]

Watch the pressure with hollow base bullets. It's possible to blow the skirts off the bullet and and they will be left in the barrel. Barrel obstruction.

thanks for info, I have pushed them over 1000fps and not had any problem, they are cast wheel weights not swaged so I don't think ill have a problem.

 

[rockquarry]

I just tried seating a couple dummy rds. for a test with no primer they seat fine and when pulled have not swaged the bases!!!, the rounds cycle in the revolver with no issues hopefully the crimp will keep them from walking out when firing I am only shooting them about 850FPS, What was your experience after the second firing do they expand larger again under the pressure of firing and need to be resized? after a second firing? Thanks for the tip I will at least get to check on the accuracy of the unswaged bases without buying the custom expander to find out.

You might be able to go several loadings without a full-length resizing, but that's based on my experience with bottleneck rifle cartridges that require a full-length sizing after about five loadings.

 

[kadams]

You might be able to go several loadings without a full-length resizing, but that's based on my experience with bottleneck rifle cartridges that require a full-length sizing after about five loadings.

thanks Im going to give it a go

 

[BLUEDOT37]

I'm wondering if any of you may know how deeply i can expand the case without causing a bump in the case Where the case begins to get thicker? I can only measure the brass wall thickness about .360" deep and the brass thickness is uniform to that depth. So I need to expand the brass .490-500" deep

.
Sounds like going the "unsized" route may be what you need.

To answer your original question though, I checked some of my 44 Special brass, Starline & R-P, to see what that depth is.

Using my pin gage set (.425" was the largest size that easily inserted) on the sized brass I found the pin gage stopped at ~.588" in the S-L brass & ~.673" in the R-P brass.

Don't know what brand you have. Obviously the brand makes a difference though.

Forty-four Special is a hoot!

(The R-P brass has the case cannelure, the S-L doesn't)
.



.

 

[kadams]

Thanks for that info! I'm using star-line for my load testing and "accuracy" loads and i have a number of other mixed brass I use. So it looks like it has .588" depth until the brass gets thicker, thats perfect I'd like to expand the case to .431 down to about .500 depth. i was expanding .429 to a depth of .330 using an m-die expander and it was swaging the hollow bases to .429 as i mentioned above, I'm looking forward to shooting some of the unsized brass in the .44 special to see what improvements i get if any. Its been an interesting education in casting a handloading as compared to reloading jacketed ammo, But I have gotten better accuracy with cast in my .44's and 357's using cast bullets, I did end up using the head stamps with the thinnest case walls I could find for my .38 hbwc's to solve the same problem. And yes the .44 special is a hoot I'm shooting a 6 1/2" 24-3. And really enjoying it. I have a few magnums, the 24-3 is my first .44 special.
'

 

[kadams]

.
Sounds like going the "unsized" route may be what you need.

To answer your original question though, I checked some of my 44 Special brass, Starline & R-P, to see what that depth is.

Using my pin gage set (.425" was the largest size that easily inserted) on the sized brass I found the pin gage stopped at ~.588" in the S-L brass & ~.673" in the R-P brass.

Don't know what brand you have. Obviously the brand makes a difference though.

Forty-four Special is a hoot!

(The R-P brass has the case cannelure, the S-L doesn't)
.



.

What's the diameter of the cylinder throats on that 396 out of curiosity?

 

[Forrest r]

Another option is to customize a lee fcd by opening it up to your desired diameter.

Clean brass, prime and flare the unsized case mouth. Add powder and seat the hbwc. Then run everything up into the customized lee fcd. This is how the factory makes there ammo.

FWIW:
A hb bullet will expand to fill those oversized throats even if you size that hbwc to .429" and shoot them in those .432" cylinders. The tell tail is no leading in the bbl. I've showed these pics before, a hb swc that I cast (8/9bhn) and then put a hp in. Used 15.5gr of 2400 (+/- 18,000psi load) and shot out of a snubnosed 44spl.

A side view of that same recovered bullet.

Got 2 things going on.
1. Kind of hard to blow the skirt off of a cast hb bullet.
2. If you look at the side view of the recovered bullet you can clearly see the bullets base has expanded/flared.

I had my best accuracy in my 624 (.432" throats) when I sized my cast 220gr hbwc's to .432" and seated them so they were crimped in the top lube groove. This put the .432" body of the hbwc in the throat of the .432" leade in the chambers of the cylinders. Only tested @ 25yds but I had several loads that easily did +/- 1" at that distance.

 

[kadams]

Another option is to customize a lee fcd by opening it up to your desired diameter.

Clean brass, prime and flare the unsized case mouth. Add powder and seat the hbwc. Then run everything up into the customized lee fcd. This is how the factory makes there ammo.

FWIW:
A hb bullet will expand to fill those oversized throats even if you size that hbwc to .429" and shoot them in those .432" cylinders. The tell tail is no leading in the bbl. I've showed these pics before, a hb swc that I cast (8/9bhn) and then put a hp in. Used 15.5gr of 2400 (+/- 18,000psi load) and shot out of a snubnosed 44spl.

A side view of that same recovered bullet.

Got 2 things going on.
1. Kind of hard to blow the skirt off of a cast hb bullet.
2. If you look at the side view of the recovered bullet you can clearly see the bullets base has expanded/flared.

I had my best accuracy in my 624 (.432" throats) when I sized my cast 220gr hbwc's to .432" and seated them so they were crimped in the top lube groove. This put the .432" body of the hbwc in the throat of the .432" leade in the chambers of the cylinders. Only tested @ 25yds but I had several loads that easily did +/- 1" at that distance.

I'm sizing to fit the throats at .4315, and seating in the top lube groove, recently tried the bottom groove and accuracy was same. Im getting 21/4 inch 6 shot groups at 35 yds from a rest , with the cast HBWC, 240 grain GC do a bit better but take more time,$, lead, powder to assemble. I am just curious if i can get same accuracy from HBWC, for less effort and lower powder charges.

 

[rockquarry]

I'm sizing to fit the throats at .4315, and seating in the top lube groove, recently tried the bottom groove and accuracy was same. Im getting 21/4 inch 6 shot groups at 35 yds from a rest , with the cast HBWC, 240 grain GC do a bit better but take more time,$, lead, powder to assemble. I am just curious if i can get same accuracy from HBWC, for less effort and lower powder charges.

I like accurate loads but am not an obsessive perfectionist. I'd be happy with your 35 yard groups and congratulations for shooting at a distance where you can actually determine real and meaningful accuracy.

 

['79 Magnum GT]

Thanks for that info! I'm using star-line for my load testing and "accuracy" loads and i have a number of other mixed brass I use. So it looks like it has .588" depth until the brass gets thicker, thats perfect I'd like to expand the case to .431 down to about .500 depth. i was expanding .429 to a depth of .330 using an m-die expander and it was swaging the hollow bases to .429 as i mentioned above, I'm looking forward to shooting some of the unsized brass in the .44 special to see what improvements i get if any. Its been an interesting education in casting a handloading as compared to reloading jacketed ammo, But I have gotten better accuracy with cast in my .44's and 357's using cast bullets, I did end up using the head stamps with the thinnest case walls I could find for my .38 hbwc's to solve the same problem. And yes the .44 special is a hoot I'm shooting a 6 1/2" 24-3. And really enjoying it. I have a few magnums, the 24-3 is my first .44 special.
'

"I'm shooting a 6 1/2" 24-3."

Is it Nickel?

Rick

 

[kadams]

Is it Nickel?

Rick

No sir its blued I havn't personally seen one in nickel finish but im not a 24-3 afficianado by any means

 

[kadams]

I like accurate loads but am not an obsessive perfectionist. I'd be happy with your 35 yard groups and congratulations for shooting at a distance where you can actually determine real and meaningful accuracy.

Thankyou, I started out hunting with handguns (squirrels and rabbits first, then deer and hogs) long before crafting my own ammo for them and my end goal is accurate hunting rounds. I shoot better groups with optics mounted on other handguns at 50yds than i do with open sights at 35yds these days and honestly my eye site isn't what it used to be and my results at 35yds may be my own fault, I am getting 1.5" at 35 yds with cast SBWC out of my open sited 27-3 .357 so I'm thinking I still havn't achieved the accuracy the 24-3 is capable of, it does need some trigger work and my groups are horizontal usually which leads me to believe I'm canting the revolver when pressing the trigger.

Note: the best groups thus far from the 24-3 are with 10grains of HS-6 and a 240grain LSWC-GC and they are under an inch at 25yds. I'm out of gas checks and waiting on a check maker I ordered 2 months ago so I havn't been able to try that load at longer distance. That load is a bit stout for regular practice but i get no pressure signs and easy extraction and would use it on game.

On the note of testing at distance that can determine real accuracy, I really have a peeve with gun writers testing for accuracy at seven or 15 yds calling it good, then proclaiming the gun a tack driver, For the life of me I cant figure out why? You should be able to hit a tin can with a sling shot at that distance!

I really appreciate all the tips and input i receive from this group, this is my first round of casting and loading for best accuracy and its been quite an interesting education. previously i only loaded jacketed ammo, And at the price of that gold plated commodity these days i would have hung up this project 2months ago!

 

[rockquarry]

Thankyou, I started out hunting with handguns (squirrels and rabbits first, then deer and hogs) long before crafting my own ammo for them and my end goal is accurate hunting rounds. I shoot better groups with optics mounted on other handguns at 50yds than i do with open sights at 35yds these days and honestly my eye site isn't what it used to be and my results at 35yds may be my own fault, I am getting 1.5" at 35 yds with cast SBWC out of my open sited 27-3 .357 so I'm thinking I still havn't achieved the accuracy the 24-3 is capable of, it does need some trigger work and my groups are horizontal usually which leads me to believe I'm canting the revolver when pressing the trigger.

Note: the best groups thus far from the 24-3 are with 10grains of HS-6 and a 240grain LSWC-GC and they are under an inch at 25yds. I'm out of gas checks and waiting on a check maker I ordered 2 months ago so I havn't been able to try that load at longer distance. That load is a bit stout for regular practice but i get no pressure signs and easy extraction and would use it on game.

On the note of testing at distance that can determine real accuracy, I really have a peeve with gun writers testing for accuracy at seven or 15 yds calling it good, then proclaiming the gun a tack driver, For the life of me I cant figure out why? You should be able to hit a tin can with a sling shot at that distance!

I really appreciate all the tips and input i receive from this group, this is my first round of casting and loading for best accuracy and its been quite an interesting education. previously i only loaded jacketed ammo, And at the price of that gold plated commodity these days i would have hung up this project 2months ago!

I think there are a lot of gunwriters (paper published and Internet published) today who aren't very experienced and wind up with guns they can't shoot very well, even from a benchrest. But, up close, everything, even sorry ammo and sorry guns are "accurate" and the shooter is a pro. That's not very helpful for readers interested in true accuracy, but to many readers today, accuracy is not important.

 

[Forrest r]

I'm sizing to fit the throats at .4315, and seating in the top lube groove, recently tried the bottom groove and accuracy was same. Im getting 21/4 inch 6 shot groups at 35 yds from a rest , with the cast HBWC, 240 grain GC do a bit better but take more time,$, lead, powder to assemble. I am just curious if i can get same accuracy from HBWC, for less effort and lower powder charges.

Their doing better because they aren't as picky as the hbwc's. Get the right combo (pressure not velocity) and you'll find several loads that will shoot tight groups.

I was using clays, bullseye and the slower american select in the 4.0gr to 4.5gr range.

 

[kadams]

Their doing better because they aren't as picky as the hbwc's. Get the right combo (pressure not velocity) and you'll find several loads that will shoot tight groups.

I was using clays, bullseye and the slower american select in the 4.0gr to 4.5gr range.

I'm interested in knowing some more about that methodology because i have never heard it before other than to load to correct pressure for obturation of the alloy you are using? I am powder coating my lead bullets, Do you think this is also an important factor for accuracy using coated bullets or is it more of a concern for traditionally lubed bullets? As I mentioned in the initial post I was surmising I was getting better groups with the HBWC's at the top end of the recommended charges because I was getting enough pressure to expand the base of the bullet that had been undersized when i seated it in the case that was too tight.

Also I see you loaded the above hollow base bullets with 15.5 grains of 2400 and noted 18000psi with that load.

Was 15.5 grains a load you also shot in .44 specials with longer barrels for accuracy testing? I got good accuracy with 14 grains of 2400 with the 215gr. HBWC's but It seemed hot even though i didn't get excessive pressure signs. I'm tip toeing my way into this because there is such a lack of info, on .44 special loads in the blank area between top end .44 special loads and bottom end .44 magnum loads and i really don't need magnum velocities for this revolver. My objective is best accuracy i can achieve for paper and small game in side of 50yds.

again thanks for all your insight

 

[Forrest r]

The issue you're fighting is the +/- 3/1000th difference between the extremely oversized cylinder throats diameter (.431") that's getting swaged down in the .429" in the bbl. Any off-center strikes on the forcing cone affects the long bodied hbwc more than the small front drive band of the swc's you're using. Even perfectly centered strikes are swaging that bullet down 3/1000th in a millisecond. Personally, I never size anything down more than 3/1000th's at 1 time in a sizer or bad things happen accuracy wise. Hense my statement, find a pressure zone that works.

I pc also & find it's easier to find accurate loads with pc'd bullets compared to their sized/lubed counterparts.

99% of my cast bullet needs are cast with a 8/9bhn alloy. I have no issues using that alloy in loads from mild (+/- 8,000psi) to wild (+/- 35,000psi).

The 44spl can be extremely accurate, s&w made it a lot harder with their oversized cylinders in the 624's and 29-2's with the .431" cylinder throats. Got tired of it and sold the 624 & the 29-2 and was a lot happier afterwards.

Every couple of years I test hot 44spl loads for a snubnosed 44spl (charter arms bulldog). I've owned/used/carried a bulldog since the 1980's. Testing is done @ 25ft over a chronograph, this was my last series of testing

I like to keep the 44spl bullets in the 200gr to 220gr weight range in that bulldog and the velocity in the +/- 1000fps range. I test penetration by using wetpack. Wetpack is taking 12" bundles of newspaper and taping them together and putting them in a 48qt cooler & then fill the cooler with water and let it sit overnight. Take the whole thing to the range the next day and pull a bundle out, staple a target to it & set it at the yardage I'm testing. I've read that 1" of penetration in wetpack is equal to 1 1/2" of penetration in 10% ballistics gel. Don't know about all that, but if your loads get +/- 8" of penetration in wetpack. They will take out pretty much anything with 2 or 4 legs.

At the end of the day you're looking for a consistent alloy to use with all the different bullets you're casting/using in that 624. Then you do ladder testing looking for accuracy and more importantly, the pressure range that created that accuracy. Then lastly test your accurate load for penetration/how lethal it is.

 

[kadams]

Their doing better because they aren't as picky as the hbwc's. Get the right combo (pressure not velocity) and you'll find several loads that will shoot tight groups.

I was using clays, bullseye and the slower american select in the 4.0gr to 4.5gr range.

The issue you're fighting is the +/- 3/1000th difference between the extremely oversized cylinder throats diameter (.431") that's getting swaged down in the .429" in the bbl. Any off-center strikes on the forcing cone affects the long bodied hbwc more than the small front drive band of the swc's you're using. Even perfectly centered strikes are swaging that bullet down 3/1000th in a millisecond. Personally, I never size anything down more than 3/1000th's at 1 time in a sizer or bad things happen accuracy wise. Hense my statement, find a pressure zone that works.

I pc also & find it's easier to find accurate loads with pc'd bullets compared to their sized/lubed counterparts.

99% of my cast bullet needs are cast with a 8/9bhn alloy. I have no issues using that alloy in loads from mild (+/- 8,000psi) to wild (+/- 35,000psi).

The 44spl can be extremely accurate, s&w made it a lot harder with their oversized cylinders in the 624's and 29-2's with the .431" cylinder throats. Got tired of it and sold the 624 & the 29-2 and was a lot happier afterwards.

Every couple of years I test hot 44spl loads for a snubnosed 44spl (charter arms bulldog). I've owned/used/carried a bulldog since the 1980's. Testing is done @ 25ft over a chronograph, this was my last series of testing

I like to keep the 44spl bullets in the 200gr to 220gr weight range in that bulldog and the velocity in the +/- 1000fps range. I test penetration by using wetpack. Wetpack is taking 12" bundles of newspaper and taping them together and putting them in a 48qt cooler & then fill the cooler with water and let it sit overnight. Take the whole thing to the range the next day and pull a bundle out, staple a target to it & set it at the yardage I'm testing. I've read that 1" of penetration in wetpack is equal to 1 1/2" of penetration in 10% ballistics gel. Don't know about all that, but if your loads get +/- 8" of penetration in wetpack. They will take out pretty much anything with 2 or 4 legs.

At the end of the day you're looking for a consistent alloy to use with all the different bullets you're casting/using in that 624. Then you do ladder testing looking for accuracy and more importantly, the pressure range that created that accuracy. Then lastly test your accurate load for penetration/how lethal it is.

I see thanks for the explanation, You think I may do better sizing my bullets smaller in the first place before loading? say .430 or would that just exacerbate the problem of them not entering the forcing cone straight?

 

[kadams]

The issue you're fighting is the +/- 3/1000th difference between the extremely oversized cylinder throats diameter (.431") that's getting swaged down in the .429" in the bbl. Any off-center strikes on the forcing cone affects the long bodied hbwc more than the small front drive band of the swc's you're using. Even perfectly centered strikes are swaging that bullet down 3/1000th in a millisecond. Personally, I never size anything down more than 3/1000th's at 1 time in a sizer or bad things happen accuracy wise. Hense my statement, find a pressure zone that works.

I pc also & find it's easier to find accurate loads with pc'd bullets compared to their sized/lubed counterparts.

99% of my cast bullet needs are cast with a 8/9bhn alloy. I have no issues using that alloy in loads from mild (+/- 8,000psi) to wild (+/- 35,000psi).

The 44spl can be extremely accurate, s&w made it a lot harder with their oversized cylinders in the 624's and 29-2's with the .431" cylinder throats. Got tired of it and sold the 624 & the 29-2 and was a lot happier afterwards.

Every couple of years I test hot 44spl loads for a snubnosed 44spl (charter arms bulldog). I've owned/used/carried a bulldog since the 1980's. Testing is done @ 25ft over a chronograph, this was my last series of testing

I like to keep the 44spl bullets in the 200gr to 220gr weight range in that bulldog and the velocity in the +/- 1000fps range. I test penetration by using wetpack. Wetpack is taking 12" bundles of newspaper and taping them together and putting them in a 48qt cooler & then fill the cooler with water and let it sit overnight. Take the whole thing to the range the next day and pull a bundle out, staple a target to it & set it at the yardage I'm testing. I've read that 1" of penetration in wetpack is equal to 1 1/2" of penetration in 10% ballistics gel. Don't know about all that, but if your loads get +/- 8" of penetration in wetpack. They will take out pretty much anything with 2 or 4 legs.

At the end of the day you're looking for a consistent alloy to use with all the different bullets you're casting/using in that 624. Then you do ladder testing looking for accuracy and more importantly, the pressure range that created that accuracy. Then lastly test your accurate load for penetration/how lethal it is.

Where do i found that hollow point tool results are impressive.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

What's the diameter of the cylinder throats on that 396 out of curiosity?

.
They were too tight, .4285", which has been reported on other 296/396/696 models, but I don't know how wide spread.

I opened them up with a Manson Reamer to .4305"

.



.
.



.

 

[kadams]

The issue you're fighting is the +/- 3/1000th difference between the extremely oversized cylinder throats diameter (.431") that's getting swaged down in the .429" in the bbl. Any off-center strikes on the forcing cone affects the long bodied hbwc more than the small front drive band of the swc's you're using. Even perfectly centered strikes are swaging that bullet down 3/1000th in a millisecond. Personally, I never size anything down more than 3/1000th's at 1 time in a sizer or bad things happen accuracy wise. Hense my statement, find a pressure zone that works.

I pc also & find it's easier to find accurate loads with pc'd bullets compared to their sized/lubed counterparts.

99% of my cast bullet needs are cast with a 8/9bhn alloy. I have no issues using that alloy in loads from mild (+/- 8,000psi) to wild (+/- 35,000psi).

The 44spl can be extremely accurate, s&w made it a lot harder with their oversized cylinders in the 624's and 29-2's with the .431" cylinder throats. Got tired of it and sold the 624 & the 29-2 and was a lot happier afterwards.

Every couple of years I test hot 44spl loads for a snubnosed 44spl (charter arms bulldog). I've owned/used/carried a bulldog since the 1980's. Testing is done @ 25ft over a chronograph, this was my last series of testing

I like to keep the 44spl bullets in the 200gr to 220gr weight range in that bulldog and the velocity in the +/- 1000fps range. I test penetration by using wetpack. Wetpack is taking 12" bundles of newspaper and taping them together and putting them in a 48qt cooler & then fill the cooler with water and let it sit overnight. Take the whole thing to the range the next day and pull a bundle out, staple a target to it & set it at the yardage I'm testing. I've read that 1" of penetration in wetpack is equal to 1 1/2" of penetration in 10% ballistics gel. Don't know about all that, but if your loads get +/- 8" of penetration in wetpack. They will take out pretty much anything with 2 or 4 legs.

At the end of the day you're looking for a consistent alloy to use with all the different bullets you're casting/using in that 624. Then you do ladder testing looking for accuracy and more importantly, the pressure range that created that accuracy. Then lastly test your accurate load for penetration/how lethal it is.

I tested some of the .44 215 grain HBWC today sized .4305, I didn't resize the fired cases I punched the primers out, tumbled them and loaded them. I could just about completely seat the bullets with finger pressure. I lightly crimped them in the first lube groove over 5.5 grains of tite group.
The first rested test group at 35yds put 4 bullets in .680" and two "fliers" opened the group to two inches ( I'm sure that was my error). I adjusted the sights to center the group and started shooting 8" steel plates at 20, 30, and 40yds and 10" plates at 50 yds off hand, I never missed a plate with 3 cylinders it was pure joy! I was pressed for time today and have to leave town for a 30day work trip Fri. so it will have to wait on further accuracy testing. After weekly range trips for 3months a lot of research and consultation with this forum and others on load development I feel like I'm winning.
Thankyou to everyone that provided input with my Model 24-3 accuracy project. it will continue>>>

 

[kadams]

Just a suggestion. Try loading without sizing the cases, just bell the case mouth. The .4315 bullet may fit the case well enough without sizing. I have done this in the past. he other possibility is what is the diameter of your cylinder throats? Sizing the bullets to match the throats may solve the issue that concerns you.

It worked! thankyou, see below

I tested some of the .44 215 grain HBWC today sized .4305, I didn't resize the fired cases I punched the primers out, tumbled them and loaded them. I could just about completely seat the bullets with finger pressure. I lightly crimped them in the first lube groove over 5.5 grains of tite group.
The first rested test group at 35yds put 4 bullets in .680" and two "fliers" opened the group to two inches ( I'm sure that was my error). I adjusted the sights to center the group and started shooting 8" steel plates at 20, 30, and 40yds and 10" plates at 50 yds off hand, I never missed a plate with 3 cylinders it was pure joy! I was pressed for time today and have to leave town for a 30day work trip Fri. so it will have to wait on further accuracy testing. After weekly range trips for 3months a lot of research and consultation with this forum and others on load development I feel like I'm winning.
Thankyou to everyone that provided input with my Model 24-3 accuracy project. it will continue>>>