22/32 First Production Run Revolver Worth?

[ol777gunnerz]

I own the 525th 22/32 assembled in the first production run, was shipped July 14, 1911, seral #138935. At some point it was sent back to the factory [no historical info available] for reblue & possible barrel or cylinder, etc. 525 is stamped under the left grip, nice shiny bore with good rifling, finish is easily over 95% with a few small spots on the left frame & cylinder, tight lockup & functions as should, & has been tested at the range with standard velocity ammo. S&W 4th model reads that guns in the first production run are worth 50-100% premium added value. What would be a fair price to ask for this revolver?

 

[ol777gunnerz]

letter

The History Letter with the pertinent info.

 

[ol777gunnerz]

info

Grip number 525

 

[glowe]

The 1st production run was thought to be delivered to Beakeart, totaling 1,000 guns. First serial number was around 138220 to 139,275. Your revolver fits the first production, but did not go to Beakeart as Roy suggested in his book. That is interesting, since the first standard production of this model was thought to have started in 1912. Maybe others have a record of the some of the first 1,000 going somewhere other than Beakeart, but I suspect it did not happen often.

 

[mrcvs]

I would think a fair price on this one might be $600 to $700 because it's factory refinished and the value is 85% of one not factory refinished in comparable condition, that revolver being worth in the $800 range.

But prices on these are all over the place, and some sell surprisingly low and others surprisingly high.

 

[Hondo44]

Very nice gun.

As Gary posted above: The 1st 294 have known serial numbers (this is the correct #, the SCSW is out of date on some facts) of the 1st production run of 1050 are the highest premium priced guns that shipped to Bekeart. The remainder of the first run are considered "2nd Class" Bekeart models with a lesser premium.


But I still feel even with a factory refinish, it's worth in the $1200 - $1500 ball park.

The .22/32 HFT became regular beginning at about #160000 in 1914 and it was named ".22/32 Heavy Frame Target" of 1915.

 

[mrcvs]

Very nice gun.

As Gary posted above: The 1st 294 have known serial numbers (this is the correct #, the SCSW is out of date on some facts) of the 1st production run of 1050 are the highest premium priced guns that shipped to Bekeart. The remainder of the first run are considered "2nd Class" Bekeart models with a lesser premium.


But I still feel even with a factory refinish, it's worth in the $1200 - $1500 ball park.

The .22/32 HFT became regular production in 1915.

IDK, I have two such as described not factory refinished purchased in the last few years and my expenditure was $800 to $900 each. But I do search with a mindset towards a little thrift.

 

[mrcvs]

Perhaps if not with a mindset towards looking at those that are a bit on the thrifty side, as the asking price is all over the place on these and if a sharp looking revolver is desired—and this is one such revolver—perhaps in this market the north of $1k range is achievable.

 

[Model19man]

It looks really good. A factory refinish is not the same value killer as an aftermarket refinish. Think of it as a Turnbull refinish + an unknown amount.

 

[mrcvs]

It looks really good. A factory refinish is not the same value killer as an aftermarket refinish. Think of it as a Turnbull refinish + an unknown amount.

It isn't. A factory refinish means a revolver is still worth about 85% of original. A non factory refinish diminishes value to a fraction of original.

 

[James K]

One went today in ME on Proxibid for $325. Good/VG and original but not excellent.
Serial #458XXX

 

[mrcvs]

One went today in ME on Proxibid for $325. Good/VG and original but not excellent.
Serial #458XXX

This revolver is in a vastly different serial number range, which is a less desirable range than the early ones, and a link with photographs was not provided, so condition of this revolver cannot be assessed. But it proves that prices with regards to this model are "all over the place".

 

[Hondo44]

Yes the devil is in the details on these models.

 

[JSR III]

Just to clarify, the first run of these guns contains 1,050 examples. Of those 1,050, only 294 went to BEKEART. (Correct spelling)

I have in my database all of the shipping dates and destinations for those 1,050 except a few where the factory records were unreadable. This is what leads to the dreaded "not in the books" reply from Roy or Don.

Bekeart's first shipment is recorded as 6/7/1911 and the first non Bekeart shipment was as early as 6/16/1911, only 9 days later. As I have stated before, this begs the question as to why the story says Bekeart had to place an order for 1,000 guns to convince the factory to do the necessary tooling to produce a .22 caliber revolver on the larger .32 caliber frame and yet within 9 days either Bekeart or S&W realized that he could not market the entire run of 1,050 guns and 756 were shipped out to other S&W dealers.

Prices on these guns are all over the board. Condition like with most things is key. I monitor the auction sites and have watched examples sell for big dollars and yet have watched others sit on the market for over a year. There are at least 6 for sale right now on one of the major sites. You will see them listed from $400 to $1400 but listing is not necessarily selling.

A Bekeart shipped gun is supposed to bring a premium however what that premium is seems to be up to the desire of the buyer.

 

[James K]

This revolver is in a vastly different serial number range, which is a less desirable range than the early ones, and a link with photographs was not provided, so condition of this revolver cannot be assessed. But it proves that prices with regards to this model are "all over the place".

This is it:
S&W MODEL 22/32 TARGET REVOLVER. |




Guns & Military Artifacts

Handguns & Pistols

Revolvers

| Online Auctions | Proxibid

 

[Hondo44]

James, excellent question: "...this begs the question as to why the story says Bekeart had to place an order for 1,000 guns...?

I don't know either, however I would speculate that Bekeart was not required to take the first 1000 guns, or take them all at once. Perhaps there was a time period for him to accept the required 1000 guns over one year or more. S&W undoubtedly figured they wouldn't have a problem selling at least a thousand among all of its dealers, and therefore didn't give Bekeart exclusive right to the first 1000.

It would be interesting to know if Bekeart ever received as many as 1000 over the years before they closed business about 1949.

From your database, do you have many guns that shipped to Bekeart after the first 294?

 

[mrcvs]

This is it:
S&W MODEL 22/32 TARGET REVOLVER. |




Guns & Military Artifacts

Handguns & Pistols

Revolvers

| Online Auctions | Proxibid

Well, this proves my point. This one hammered at $325. The auction house estimated $600 to $800. I would have thought this revolver would reach at least the low end pre auction estimate. It only brought little more than half that.

The OPs revolver, depending on the auction, might bring the higher end numbers other posters suggested. Or it might bring only what I suggested, or worse.

If I had put this revolver up for sale in the Poulenc Auction and it hammered at $325, I'd be ripped. Probably at least 15% went to the auction house, maybe $50 was spent to ship it to the auction house. Net to the seller might have been a little over $200.

It's luck of the draw, but I'd still be ripped.

Had I known about this revolver, I easily would have bid $325 on it and quite a bit more!

 

[rct269]

Mine sold for $1260 within the last three years.

It's #444707, shipped to Von Lengerke & Antoine, March 8, 1927, rendering it with no added "Bekeartness" value whatsoever. On the other hand, its condition hovers around flat mint; so-----------------------------------------.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[JSR III]

From your database, do you have many guns that shipped to Bekeart after the first 294?

Jim, unfortunately the information on the first 1,050 was gleaned from the factory records kept by Dr. Jinks some years ago in his home office. That is why I have all of the information available on that run.

The next group to appear in my database show up in the 160,XXX serial range in late spring of 1912. While I have captured many shipping to Bekeart, this information does not come from the factory records and was collected by me over the last couple of decades from online auctions, the ship date forum in the SWCA section of this site, emails from collectors and posts here. Therefore, totals are not available at this time.

There is a flyer however that Bekeart put out stating that he had received another exclusive shipment of 1,000 of this model that could be purchased from him in San Francisco. So again, is this a statement of fact or merely a salesman's puffery. We know that he never received all of the first run of 1,050 so how are we to interpret this claim????

Regardless, there is another large grouping that went to M.W. Robinson containing 490 consecutive serial numbered guns in early 1914 that is a larger grouping than Bekeart's first total of 294 however, they don't seem to draw the same attention. These 490 are numbered between 207,926 and 208,415 and were shipped in 5 shipments on January 31, February 18, 21 and 27, and March 19, 1914. These guns do not show up as often as many others in different serial number blocks and I have surmised that Robinson shipped a lot of these overseas.

Robinson was S&W's biggest east coast distributor and Bekeart was I believe the largest on the west coast.

Of the roughly 100 guns recorded in my database between 161,141 and 165,954 I have 53 that went to Bekeart. So not 1,000 but about half of those that I have information on.

The next serial group recorded are the Robinson guns from 207,926 to 208,415 and since all went to NY, none went to Bekeart.

The next serial block in my database begins with 220,110 and from that gun forward, I have not recorded another Bekeart shipped gun. That portion of my database runs from 1914 to 1953 and includes about 533 listings.

So that's what I have, hope it helps.....

 

[mrcvs]

…there is another large grouping that went to M.W. Robinson containing 490 consecutive serial numbered guns in early 1914 that is a larger grouping than Bekeart's first total of 294 however, they don't seem to draw the same attention. These 490 are numbered between 207,926 and 208,415 and were shipped in 5 shipments on January 31, February 18, 21 and 27, and March 19, 1914. These guns do not show up as often as many others number blocks and I have surmised that Robinson shipped a lot of these overseas.

And here is one of those, serial number 208106.