.22/.32 Kit Gun (prewar)

[22shtur]

I have been debating acquiring this one to shoot. I know it is missing the front sight blade.
The serial number is 53335X, which according to my 3 edition S&W catalog is a prewar. However, on pg 118 of the 3rd edition, it states the prewar has a small S&W trademark on the left side. This one has a large S&W trademark on the right side.

I would also like to know what a fair price for it would be without a front sight blade.

And the big question, anyone have a spare front sight blade for it?

 

[JP@AK]

The serial number is 53335X, which according to my 3 edition S&W catalog is a prewar.

.22/32 Kit Gun number 530141 left the factory in July, 1937. There is a reference point for you.

on pg 118 of the 3rd edition, it states the prewar has a small S&W trademark on the left side

530141 has the small monogram on the left side.

 

[murphydog]

It looks to have a longer than 4 but less than 6" barrel, has it been shortened? That would affect its value quite a bit.

Posting a WTB parts ad may find you a proper front sight blade

 

[Hondo44]

It's a pre war, notice the made in USA on right side of the frame. The logo was enlarged and stamped on the right side in the late 1930s and moved back to the left after the war on the small frame revolvers because sometimes the side plate got bent applying the logo.

Notice there's two types of front sight for this model shown in theSCSW 3rd Ed. The half round "pocket sight" with notch on top and the Patridge sight.

I wouldn't devalue the gun more than $100 because neither one would be hard to make an easy to install even if you can't find an original

 

[22shtur]

The lettering on the sides of the barrel are somewhat centered between the end of the frame and the end of the barrel, the base of the front sight is part of the barrel, not soldered on like a shortened barrel.

 

[Hondo44]

That's the standard 4" kit gun barrel and only length barrel used on pre war kit guns.

 

[JSR III]

I have two guns listed in my database in the 53335X range having shipped in 12/1939 and 5/1940. Most of the guns in the range are listed with the Patridge front sight.

The change over from the small logo on the left to the large logo on the right side shows up around serial number 531XXX in mid 1938.

There are several online sources of S&W parts and IIRC the front sight is pinned into a raised boss that is soldered to the barrel. The pins are also available but you will need to mic the boss to get the correct length as there were different sizes available.

Member Club Gun Fan had bags of both at one time however the last time I asked he told me that he had passed them on to someone. Perhaps he could let you know where.

Since I collect the .22/32 HFT's, I was able to pick up several Paine front sight blades and their pins before he sold the parts.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Be easy to make a front sight blade out of a Woodruff key.

 

[paplinker]

533502 shipped 6-29-40

Large trademark also with the rebated frame.

I believe I handled that gun once before it came up for auction at milestone. The front sight was missing at that time. Could be coincidence.

 

[22shtur]

I believe I handled that gun once before it came up for auction at milestone. The front sight was missing at that time. Could be coincidence.

The gun is in MT

 

[Hondo44]

The front base on the barrel is forged integral with the barrel.

Both sight blades are the thickness of the slot in the base and have parallel sides, neither tapers to the top like front blades on fixed sight guns.

 

[DCWilson]

Other dates for nearby serial numbers: 533326 Jul 1939; 533332 Oct 1939; 533358 Dec 1939. All are .22/32 Kit Guns.

It is impossible to tell from the low-res and poorly exposed photos what the gun's real condition is. It obviously has some muzzle wear and lost blue on the ejector rod. The cylinder has a turn ring that is not horrible, but I wouldn't call it light. The harsh lighting pretty much leave the rest of the frame a mystery, but the finish seems sort of patchy where it hasn't been overexposed. The Regulation Police style stocks don't have any obvious chips or gouges and seem to be in decent shape. That may imply that the gun was not heavily used, or it may not. Depends on whether these stocks are original or a replacement. If they are original, it means the gun has a rebated (stepped) grip frame to accommodate the design of the RP stocks. In this case the serial number should be on the front of the grip frame. If the RP stocks are replacements for either round butt stocks or the two-screw target stocks, then they would have to have been whittled down to fit a standard non-rebated frame. If the serial number is on the butt of the grip frame rather than the forestrap, then the gun was manufactured as a round-butt specimen.

The Prewar KGs are not often seen -- I estimate that no more than 1300-1400 were produced between 1936 and 1941 -- and top specimens bring $2500 and up. If this one has an asking price of less than a grand, you wouldn't be hurt to take it. If the seller wants, say, $1500 to 2000, you should at the very least expect to see better photos to back up the implied higher condition. If you have had a chance to handle it and know for yourself that it is in operating condition and in better shape than the pics allow us to conclude, so much the better.

As others have said, it wouldn't be difficult to get a replacement front sight and pin it in. If the rear sight notch is square, the front blade was probably a Patridge. A round notch in the rear sight would imply a bead front sight, which might be a bead on a post, or a Patridge blade with an inset bead.

EDITED TO ADD: I have been known to take chances on gun purchases, but something about this one makes me think I might let this one go by if it popped up in front of me. If you want to proceed, I encourage you to take some extra steps to make sure it is actually what you want.

 

[JSR III]

533502 shipped 6-29-40

I have 533503 listed in my database having shipped 3 months earlier again showing how serial numbers and dates are not always in order.

 

[Hondo44]

As others have said, it wouldn't be difficult to get a replacement front sight and pin it in. If the rear sight notch is square, the front blade was probably a Patridge. A round notch in the rear sight would imply a bead front sight, which might be a bead on a post, or a Patridge blade with an inset bead.

Hi David,

The early kit gun patridge sights came with a McGivern domed gold bead on rear vertical flat.
Later without the bead.
The third sight is the "pocket sight".

In all observations I've made, the rear sight always had a square notch.

That's not to say there were no U notch rear sight blades. But if any are found it would behoove me to remove the rear sight blade to confirm it was serial numbered to the gun.

 

[22shtur]

I took the photos with my cell phone. There were a lot of overhead lights washing out the photos. The bluing that remains on the metal is very good. The numbers on the barrel, cylinder, and grip frame all match. The serial number is on the front of the grip strap. It has a square rear sight notch. There was a white colored U shape under the square opening of the rear sight - like a sighting aid? The grips looked excellent. The top of the gun was a deep blue with almost no wear. The action turned and locked up on every cylinder before the trigger was completely locked back, there was no end shake, there were no dimples on the face of the cylinder from the firing pin hitting it.
Thank you for all the awesome information. Right now it's priced at $1,000.00.

 

[Hondo44]

I'm confident you know what to do!

 

[JSR III]

The only comment that I will add is that S&W was always willing to accommodate a buyer even if it required a small up charge. The older big brother of the kit guns, the .22/32 HFT typically came with a Paine front sight and a U notch rear. I have observed however a few shipped with the Patridge front sight and a square notch rear.

I actually own one that was shipped to Bekeart in the 6/30/1911 shipment and was the 289th one assembled. It has a Patridge front sight.

I have also observed several with a Sheard bead front sight but most are listed with the Paine.

**I should have stated that I am referring to the first run of 1,050 with 294 going to Bekeart. Later the Paine front sight was swapped for the Patridge as standard equipment.

 

[DCWilson]

Hi David,

That's not to say there were no U notch rear sight blades. But if any are found it would behoove me to remove the rear sight blade to confirm it was serial numbered to the gun.

Jim, I concur in all, but would note that King modifications to prewar KGs sometimes left the revolver with U-notch rear blades. My most recent KG acquisition was a special order that came from the factory with a deep U-notch rear sight and a domed McGivern bead up front. That one came with a letter, so I didn't have to get out the screwdriver to check.

 

[DCWilson]

I took the photos with my cell phone. There were a lot of overhead lights washing out the photos. The bluing that remains on the metal is very good. The numbers on the barrel, cylinder, and grip frame all match. The serial number is on the front of the grip strap. It has a square rear sight notch. There was a white colored U shape under the square opening of the rear sight - like a sighting aid? The grips looked excellent. The top of the gun was a deep blue with almost no wear. The action turned and locked up on every cylinder before the trigger was completely locked back, there was no end shake, there were no dimples on the face of the cylinder from the firing pin hitting it.
Thank you for all the awesome information. Right now it's priced at $1,000.00.

Your report reassures me. A thou for the gun you describe is more than reasonable. Go get it! You will get much pleasure from shooting this classic small .22 revolver.

 

[papicker61]

My prewar .22 Kit Gun #531XXX has a notable heavy double action pull and even requires somewhat strenuous pressure when pulling the hammer all the way back in single action mode. Let off seems OK. This is not at all like the buttery smooth double and single action lockworks noted on prewar K frames. Is this a common characteristic of prewar I frames or is it possible that my gun may need some internal attention? I have never taken the side plate off so what's in there is a mystery.