jtpur
Member
Too bad no one offered an opinion to your question
.22 caliber revolver for self defense
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Rancher Will
Member
I think there are two ways to use a .22 caliber for self defense. We use one way often.
A .22 lr revolver (that we have) is shot very often by both my wife and myself to keep in practice and just have fun. We both shoot our .44's also but not as much as the .22. We believe that shooting the .22 keeps us better shooters with our real self defense revolvers. (My wife seems to outshoot me fairly often with the .22. She never let's me forget either.)
In an emergency, hopefully better armed, a .22 would be better than nothing and if I had to I would use it. I have killed hogs and cattle with a .22 to the brain so I know it can be deadly, but only with a careful shot.
A .22 lr revolver (that we have) is shot very often by both my wife and myself to keep in practice and just have fun. We both shoot our .44's also but not as much as the .22. We believe that shooting the .22 keeps us better shooters with our real self defense revolvers. (My wife seems to outshoot me fairly often with the .22. She never let's me forget either.)
In an emergency, hopefully better armed, a .22 would be better than nothing and if I had to I would use it. I have killed hogs and cattle with a .22 to the brain so I know it can be deadly, but only with a careful shot.
silentflyer
Member
I have a Taurus 8 shot 2 1/2" .22 Magnum I occasionally carry, makes some pretty nasty holes in a wet phone book, I sure a heck wouldn't want to be shot with one...of course I would rather use a .357 if it ever comes down to it.
shutupdata113
Member
a .22 revolver would b a good small game hunting/target pistol. As far as for self defense your choice is not a good one: it is limited in stopping power and ammo capacity. If you must have a .22 i would recommend a semi-auto with a high cap mag. If a .22 was a sufficient self defense weapon, than law enforcement would carry them.
tinkerunique
US Veteran
I would not think of a .22 for "self-defence" but for 'plinking' cans. A 357 Magnum will just slow down a person on drugs. The ONLY defense in a "threatening situation" is a well-placed shot. Placement is critical - like a winning pool shot in a billiard tournament.
Arthury
Member
I agree with you that a 22WMR ammo is certainly better than the 22LR. I am very interested in this round myself for hunting.
I also agree that, in general, 22LR ammo is not as reliable as a centerfire round unless you buy the top-shelf premium ammo. And, you should be carrying the expensive stuffs if you are using it for CCW anyway.
Having said all these, please remember that the 22LR was used to assassinate Senator Robert Kennedy. This highly publicized event clearly indicated that if the target is unaware of your presence (cooperating), your round placement can and will kill any homo sapien. But, again, there is a lot of "if" and "but" about a cooperating target presenting an opportunity and those are usually few or none in a CCW encounter.
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bp231986
Member
It would be better than nothing but would rather have a 9 or 40. Like others have said it would still give you a bad day being shot by a 22 but lets say the BG is jacked up on coke youd want something that will drop him quickly.
SicSemper
Member
Instantaneous incapacitation is not possible with non central nervous system wounds and does not always occur with central nervous system wounds. The intrinsic physiologic compensatory mechanisms of humans makes it difficult to inhibit a determined, aggressive person's activities until he has lost enough blood to cause hemorrhagic shock. The body's compensatory mechanisms designed to save a person's life after sustaining a bleeding wound, allow a person to continue to be a threat after receiving an eventually fatal wound, thus necessitating more rounds being fired in order to incapacitate or stop the assailant
Nanook 450
Member
I'm reluctant but willing to say I had my first AD a couple of weeks ago with the new Kel-Tec 22 mag. I was pointed down in a safe direction, did not pull the slide back far enough to see the round. Presed the trigger. The CCI 22 mag TMJ completely penetrated my 3/8ths inch table top cover pad, 1 inch cherry wood table top, 4 inch seat cushin 1/2 inch wood base for the cushin and pentrated the carpet. I'm not proud to tell this story, but the 22 mag will penetrate multiple layers. My wife did not even get mad. I love her!
Not so meaningless as it means that no one wants to be shot with anything which you also believe. Historically and statistically, most people do not want to be shot with anything and will stop at the sight of a gun. Read some of Massad Ayoob's articles or those of others who have actual experience or compiled data. I found that the retired LEO I know drew their guns a lot but not one of the 8 in my family or circle of close friends, ever shot anyone in their long LEO careers. You go on to state that even a .45 is ineffective so how does that make a .22 any worse? I can only go by my experience in combat and as a civilian. In combat I saw men stopped when shot in the toe and some who absorbed a lot of good hits and still kept coming until they bled out. As a civilian I saw one shooting. A big guy was shot once in the belly by a .22 Saturday Night Special and immediately clutched his stomach and went to his knees. Personally I have twiced been attacked, once by 3 guys and each time they fled when they saw my gun without asking what caliber it was.
The truth is that so much time is spent arguing about calibers and which gun when the dirty little secret is that the odds of even needing a gun are slim, having to shoot it even slimmer and having the caliber make a diffference even smaller yet. We all spend a lot of time talking about things that will never happen to the great majority of people. I tend to prepare for the possible that is likely rather than the unlikely simply because it is possible. When a gun is the answer, it seems that no odds are too small.
In case anyone is curious, I carry either a 9mm or .357 LCR when I leave my home. The reason why is simple. My last confrontation was with someone armed who was about to rob a store. When he saw my gun come out of my pocket he fled out the door. He did not seem to care that it was just a .22 revolver. However, I was wishing like heck that I had carried one of my many bigger guns that day and since then it is either a 9mm or .357 so I never have to feel that way again.
I only have experience against flesh with a .45 ACP but many police departments seem to do OK with +P 9mm and the .357 is still arguably the best man stopper out there. I do sometimes carry a .22 when I feel that I do not need a gun. I quote an old Gun Digest penetration article that shows the 22LR (2"), 32 S&W Long, 32 ACP, and 44 C&B all at 13.4-13.8" of penetration in 20% gelatin. THIS HURTS in anybodys book. I was on a jury locally where 4 dealers were all carrying and used pocket 22s.
357-RevolverGuy
Member
I'd take a 22WMR over 22LR. I've shot raccoons, squirrels, rabbits and beavers with the 22WMR (with my Single-Six, 7 1/2" barrel) and have seen the damage it can do. It often leaves a pretty nasty exit wound, and some of these beavers I've taken out have very thick bodies. I imagine on the human body it would be effective in some way, and Hornady and CCI both manufacture a high velocity, hollow point with appealing ballistics.
^^^+1 That's a fact, Jack! And, as the old saying goes, the 22 you've got with you is better than the 44mag home in the safe.
I'll answer your question with a question.
Why wouldn't you just get a .38 with non +P ammo?
What is the affection for .22?
I mean, if its all you got, you can make do.
But, casting aside issues of what is at your immediate disposal, a non +P .38 is just as easy to shoot as .22 LR, and is certainly a more effective SD round.
Why wouldn't you just get a .38 with non +P ammo?
What is the affection for .22?
I mean, if its all you got, you can make do.
But, casting aside issues of what is at your immediate disposal, a non +P .38 is just as easy to shoot as .22 LR, and is certainly a more effective SD round.
Lobster Picnic
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I think some critical things are both gained and lost. Just in the ammo category, you are gaining more rounds in the cylinder, extra rounds that could be the deciding factor. But, each of these rounds is less powerful, perhaps requiring more rounds to do the same damage or have the same effect. I do think ammo choices can help to mitigate the loss of power compared to a centerfire. Others have mentioned the Aguila Interceptor and SSS 60-gr .22lr ammo as being effective defensive choices that hit hard for their size.
Ultimately, I have chosen the .22 magnum as my carry round, because it offers power levels similar to .22lr out of a rifle, and similar to .32 Auto from a handgun. As others have noted, it's a nasty round that penetrates very well. This segment from an article called "The Sleeper" by Paco Kelly was helpful in making my choice, as was my experience with the round in the NAA Black Widow I carried for several years:
In my days in Federal Service a number of our agents carried two shot derringers in 22 magnum during undercover operations where a gun couldn't be seen. Very small and easy to hide...but yet nasty if hit with a shot from one. I fired one in the air one dark night in New York City, to get the attention of my backup officers....they said it looked like the electric company lighting the night! During the 1980s several medical examiners told us to shoot for the guts with the 22 mag...that it would fold the biggest bad guy up...or at least slow him considerably. That advice was followed, and proved to be very true in several uncover shootings.....
The Sleeper - .22 WMR
7 rounds of .22 Magnum in an 11-oz DAO J-frame is what I chose as the best concealed carry gun for my particular situation. In the end, it probably doesn't matter what the caliber is. What matters is that I have chosen something I will carry daily and feel confident in. VinnyFL said it better than I could have:
The truth is that so much time is spent arguing about calibers and which gun when the dirty little secret is that the odds of even needing a gun are slim, having to shoot it even slimmer and having the caliber make a difference even smaller yet.
venomballistics
Member
putting down a critter, assassination and murder require the ability to put a 22 cal round into a target zone about the size of a clay pidgin while it is basically still.
Defense adds motion.
you have the same target zone but its not sitting still.
If you can hit 4 out of 10 clays from a trap, then the 22 will do just fine for you.
if you lack this ability, or the resources to actually try a string of 10 airborne clays, do not even think about packing a 22 for defense.
don't disagree, was just saying that a 22 can be an effective round.
I think I read somewhere that there are more deaths from 22 shootings than any other caliber.
So I am not arguing that it should be your choice, but that it can work.
I think I read somewhere that there are more deaths from 22 shootings than any other caliber.
So I am not arguing that it should be your choice, but that it can work.
venomballistics
Member
I'll agree to the physics that yeah .. it can work.
its the skill set required to properly apply the physics that needs to be there and very rarely is. especially amongst the folks more likely to desire the 22 in this role.
I've carried 22lr, 22WMR, 32S&W,Etc. I had faith in
all of them. Mostly because I could carry concealed, and
wouldn't end up begging for mercy w/o a chance to fight.
Nowadays, it's 38Spl, until my 45 acp arrives.
Having that firearm is what sets you apart from
the victims of this world. Make the BG take that long,
dark road; we need you here.
JMHO, TACC1.
all of them. Mostly because I could carry concealed, and
wouldn't end up begging for mercy w/o a chance to fight.
Nowadays, it's 38Spl, until my 45 acp arrives.
Having that firearm is what sets you apart from
the victims of this world. Make the BG take that long,
dark road; we need you here.
JMHO, TACC1.
Freeway
US Veteran
Well... I finally decided to comment in this thread as I have what may be an uncommon situation. I have had 8 surgeries in 3 years (#8 is tomorrow morning), and I am being medically limited to shooting 22 only. No 22 magnum, just Short, Long, and Long Rifle. For me, it was either accept that choice, or be restricted to nothing at all. I am taking the first option. Some of my nerve damage will be permanent, and I'm not sure when the use of a larger caliber will be possible.
Because of this, I have acquired several 22 firearms, rifle and pistol. I understand the limitations of using a 22 for self defense, and for concealed carry, yet I will honor the restrictions my doctor has given me.
Currently, I have a Kimber Rimfire Target, which has been nearly flawless, but it's full size and something I would likely not concealed carry on a regular basis.
However... a Browning 1911-22 (A1, Desert Tan, Composite frame) is in my future! This is 85% the size of a regular 1911, and operates the same. I'm thinking this would be a great carry firearm until my restriction is lifted.
Ammunition choices present a dilemma. I have a large variety of ammo to choose from, and hope to test several types for reliability and accuracy. Common recommendations seem to be CCI - MiniMags & Velocitors, with some recommending the Aguila 60g SSS. I have tested all of these with my other 22s and every one performs perfectly. Not a single malfunction with any of these.
If anyone has other ammunition recommendations, I would appreciate it.
Suggesting a larger caliber is not an option right now. My options (from the doctor) are 22 or nothing. So I am choosing a 22.
Thanks to everyone for the advice!
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For self defense you use what ever caliber that you feel you can LIVE with.Make the wrong choice and you will die with it.Self defense is not a game.38 and above and keep firing until the dirt bag stops twitching.
venomballistics
Member
Oh GOD .... what did you just do?
we were all hoping this thread would just fade away ...
Nice going Lazarus
fake rant aside .. I would like to address your wording just a hair.
ya did great, right up to that twitching part.
Now ... if ever you end up in an SD shoot, what ya just said may be used against you in court.
we shoot till they stop attacking .. if it means we fix his twitch in the process, thats his bad juju resulting from a poor choice of career. However, this is not our objective, nor would I dare call it a bonus either.
shouldazagged
Absent Comrade
Well put. Like most of us, I hope and pray I'll never be forced to shoot anyone to save my life. So far I've never even had to draw a gun (been close a couple of times), and that suits me just fine. But should that unhappy necessity happen, I only want to stop the threat.
Venom- where is this quote from?
""we shoot till they stop attacking .. if it means we fix his twitch in the process, thats his bad juju resulting from a poor choice of career. However, this is not our objective, nor would I dare call it a bonus either.""
""we shoot till they stop attacking .. if it means we fix his twitch in the process, thats his bad juju resulting from a poor choice of career. However, this is not our objective, nor would I dare call it a bonus either.""
Oh GOD .... what did you just do?
we were all hoping this thread would just fade away ...
Nice going Lazarus
fake rant aside .. I would like to address your wording just a hair.
ya did great, right up to that twitching part.
Now ... if ever you end up in an SD shoot, what ya just said may be used against you in court.
we shoot till they stop attacking .. if it means we fix his twitch in the process, thats his bad juju resulting from a poor choice of career. However, this is not our objective, nor would I dare call it a bonus either.
venomballistics
Member
it's an original, off the cuff, admittedly well word smithed Venom exclusive.
.... give or take some random applications of spell check
inventorguy
Member
This has all been very interesting! I just cannot resist adding my .02 even though it may extend the "Longest Thread" even more. First, my personal choice is a tuned Kel-Tec .32 with European FMJs. If I were willing to CONSTANTLY carry a light double action revolver, a .22 would be just fine. My favorite and most reliable .22 auto is a Beretta Jaguar and I would not carry even it in preference to my KT due to various reliability issues associated with a rim fire and lack of double action.
No handgun is a death ray. When a deer will sometimes run 50-100 yards when shot through BOTH lungs or even the heart with a 30-06, how can we expect even a large caliber handgun to reliably have a significant effect? We are deluding ourselves and believing all the BS we see in the MSM and in various gun lust magazines.
I've noticed that police and military shootings are often given as examples showing the need for greater power. There is hatred there. If your attacker does not hate you or is not on drugs, he will almost always fall down or run away even if not hit. After all, he is already on edge because he knows that he is doing something wrong.(The above mentioned deer does not watch TV and does not know that one is supposed to fall down when shot.) If your attacker hates you or is on drugs no handgun is likely to work instantly unless it is a CNS hit. This leads to the basic ballistic problem with the rim fire, and that is that it may not have enough energy left to do anything after it penetrates to the spine. So aim high!
Stopping power is not reliably measured with a ruler and the gun that you have with you is the best one of all, no matter what the caliber. You should carry what you will constantly carry, as nobody can predict the future. If you are expecting trouble, stay home! And as my friend John Farnam has said, if it looks like you are going to get in a gun fight, "Get away from there!"
No handgun is a death ray. When a deer will sometimes run 50-100 yards when shot through BOTH lungs or even the heart with a 30-06, how can we expect even a large caliber handgun to reliably have a significant effect? We are deluding ourselves and believing all the BS we see in the MSM and in various gun lust magazines.
I've noticed that police and military shootings are often given as examples showing the need for greater power. There is hatred there. If your attacker does not hate you or is not on drugs, he will almost always fall down or run away even if not hit. After all, he is already on edge because he knows that he is doing something wrong.(The above mentioned deer does not watch TV and does not know that one is supposed to fall down when shot.) If your attacker hates you or is on drugs no handgun is likely to work instantly unless it is a CNS hit. This leads to the basic ballistic problem with the rim fire, and that is that it may not have enough energy left to do anything after it penetrates to the spine. So aim high!
Stopping power is not reliably measured with a ruler and the gun that you have with you is the best one of all, no matter what the caliber. You should carry what you will constantly carry, as nobody can predict the future. If you are expecting trouble, stay home! And as my friend John Farnam has said, if it looks like you are going to get in a gun fight, "Get away from there!"
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