vonn
US Veteran
Anyone know of a bolt action over the counter rifle that is chambered to handle .223/5.56 both? Thinking that I would like one that will shoot whatever I might have on hand. Suggestions appreciated. Thanks,Vonn
.223/5.56 bolt rifle
- Thread starter vonn
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I'm no expert.....but I do have a friend that I hunt 'yotes with that shoots .223 and mil-surp 5.56 through his Remington 700. His rifle is chambered for .223 and the only thing that seems to happen is the 5.56 brass is fireformed to .223 specs.
I suspect that any modern bolt action should be able to handle the pressure difference without problems.
Personally, I would only shoot whatever the rifle is chambered for ....... but that's just me.
Don
I suspect that any modern bolt action should be able to handle the pressure difference without problems.
Personally, I would only shoot whatever the rifle is chambered for ....... but that's just me.
Don
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Old Corp
Member
There's plenty of available good .223/5.56 bolt guns out there.
CZ, Mossberg, Remington, Ruger, Savage, etc.
I enjoy an old c.1969 Remington M788 in .223. Scary accurate, but plain as a shoe.
CZ, Mossberg, Remington, Ruger, Savage, etc.
I enjoy an old c.1969 Remington M788 in .223. Scary accurate, but plain as a shoe.
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My favorite varmint rifle is my Savage Axis .223 with a Nikon BDC 3x9 scope on it. Doesn't have the Accu-trigger....but then it shoots SO well that I don't need it!!
This thing is incredibly accurate out to 500 plus yards!
Randy
PS. My other favorite varminter is my Winchester M70 Stainless barrel .223 with a Nikon Monarch 4x14 scope...will shoot sub-MOA with nearly everything I put into it and it HAS a fabulous trigger. Oddly enough, Winchester doesn't seem to offer this anymore.
This thing is incredibly accurate out to 500 plus yards!
Randy
PS. My other favorite varminter is my Winchester M70 Stainless barrel .223 with a Nikon Monarch 4x14 scope...will shoot sub-MOA with nearly everything I put into it and it HAS a fabulous trigger. Oddly enough, Winchester doesn't seem to offer this anymore.
The big box sporting goods stores' promo matte finish Rem.700 with the Heavy Barrel, sometimes paired w/ a scope, is an outstanding buy. Most of them will shoot very well with handloaded varmint bullets, and will handle M193 Ball without issue for plinking (although not super accuracy).
It can be upgraded with standard 700 accessories as your situation dictates.
Shop around for a "deal" and watch for sales as prices vary quite a bit.
The .308 version seems to be a bit more "iffy" accuracy wise.
It can be upgraded with standard 700 accessories as your situation dictates.
Shop around for a "deal" and watch for sales as prices vary quite a bit.
The .308 version seems to be a bit more "iffy" accuracy wise.
Pisgah
Member
I know that the .223/5.56 thing is always good for an argument, but the fact is that US gunmakers have always been aware of the possible -- I emphasize POSSIBLE -- problems of firing 5.56 ammo in a .223 chamber. For that reason the vast majority, if not all, sporting rifles labeled .223 have the slightly longer chamber throat needed to make firing 5.56 ammo perfectly safe. Add to that the fact that every modern centerfire bolt action I know of is more than capable of handling the small pressure differentials between the two cartridges, and there's really very little to be concerned over UNLESS YOUR RIFLE HAS A MINIMUM-SPEC MATCH CHAMBER -- and maybe not even then.
This question is sort of akin to the .30-30 question I have often seen asked. Some US companies load .30-30 ammo with what seem to be pretty pointy bullets, and every now and then someone asks if those loads are OK for a tube-fed rifle. No ammo manufacturer in this country, knowing that at least 99% of all .30-30 rifles are tube-fed, is going to risk loading a bullet unsafe for such a rifle without copious warning that their load should not be used in such guns. They also know darned good and well that 5.56 ammo is almost guaranteed to find its way in to their .223 rifle sooner or later, and they chamber accordingly.
This question is sort of akin to the .30-30 question I have often seen asked. Some US companies load .30-30 ammo with what seem to be pretty pointy bullets, and every now and then someone asks if those loads are OK for a tube-fed rifle. No ammo manufacturer in this country, knowing that at least 99% of all .30-30 rifles are tube-fed, is going to risk loading a bullet unsafe for such a rifle without copious warning that their load should not be used in such guns. They also know darned good and well that 5.56 ammo is almost guaranteed to find its way in to their .223 rifle sooner or later, and they chamber accordingly.
CZ 527s ......... are "rated" for both .223 and 5.56.. Information is included on their website..............................
Single set trigger and 5rd detachable magazine.......Carbine and the American Model for scopes, heavy barrel Varmint model and the 527FS which is a Mannlicher/full stock 20 " carbine..... couple more..........
Great guns for the money...... mine (3) in .223/5.56 will all do MOA at 100yds.
Single set trigger and 5rd detachable magazine.......Carbine and the American Model for scopes, heavy barrel Varmint model and the 527FS which is a Mannlicher/full stock 20 " carbine..... couple more..........
Great guns for the money...... mine (3) in .223/5.56 will all do MOA at 100yds.
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Since I wasn't in the market for one I never researched it but late last year I heard a sales guy talking to another customer about a used Mossberg MVP Predator that they had just taken in. Looked like a pretty nice bolt action 5.56 which does shoot .223 of course.
I am more interested in bolt guns but still not in the market for centerfire rifles. But if I was it would be on my list to consider. Although since I am a CZ rimfire fan I would have to take a close look at any CZ offerings that I did not know about until BAM-BAM's post.
Decisions decisions. Good luck and enjoy!
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Florida J Frame
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I picked up a Mossberg MVP Patrol in .223 /5.56 and it's a great little rifle. Very accurate and fun to shoot in both calibers.
My Remington 700 ADL would work but I don't know if Remington still make a bolt gun in that caliber. Others do, however, so one should be too hard to find.
Probably plenty of used ones out there, too.
Probably plenty of used ones out there, too.
Just get ya' a Remington 700 or a CZ 527
As stated previously I would also look for the
Rem. Heavy Barrel Matte finish composite stock
on the 700.
Neither of these will break the bank and you could
even make it a truck gun with a good rack.
Both will shoot sub MOA at 100 yds. with good hand
loads.
I've never had accuracy problems with a 700.
Gunsmith buddy once told me remember the three "B"s.
Barrels, bedding, and bullets
I like Remington barrels for a production gun that's not
too expensive.
Chuck
As stated previously I would also look for the
Rem. Heavy Barrel Matte finish composite stock
on the 700.
Neither of these will break the bank and you could
even make it a truck gun with a good rack.
Both will shoot sub MOA at 100 yds. with good hand
loads.
I've never had accuracy problems with a 700.
Gunsmith buddy once told me remember the three "B"s.
Barrels, bedding, and bullets
I like Remington barrels for a production gun that's not
too expensive.
Chuck
Since I wasn't in the market for one I never researched it but late last year I heard a sales guy talking to another customer about a used Mossberg MVP Predator that they had just taken in. Looked like a pretty nice bolt action 5.56 which does shoot .223 of course.
I am more interested in bolt guns but still not in the market for centerfire rifles. But if I was it would be on my list to consider. Although since I am a CZ rimfire fan I would have to take a close look at any CZ offerings that I did not know about until BAM-BAM's post.
The Mossberg is not as slick as the CZ, but it does shoot pretty well. My first 5-shot group at 100 yards was 0.66", with HDY "training" fmj ammunition.
By the way, the HDY 55gr .223 gave a nudge over 3000fps from this rifle, and Independence 55gr 5.56 made just short of 3300fps.
-Mark
OP
vonn
US Veteran
Thanks to everyone for posting. I am researching all suggestions and really appreciate any personal use observations.
gclunde
US Veteran
I contacted Browning since I was interested in an X-Bolt and had concerns over firing 5.56 through it...they sent me an email and advised me that firing 5.56 would be perfectly safe in their Rem .223 X-bolts.
Back in the mid 90s I bought a Ruger 77MKIIR which is their standard
22" blue and walnut sporter that comes with rings and no sights in
.223 Rem cal. Since then I haven't fired it a great deal but the rounds
fired were a mix of commercial .223 and various HS 5.56mm FMJ ammo
with their original bullets or HP bullets after originals were pulled. I'm
pretty sure the barrel twist is 12" so I have stuck to M193 55 gr ammo
and never used any green tip 62 gr stuff. I have not encountered the
slightest problem so far. From what I've read the short action 77MKII
is the strongest commercial receiver available today. But any modern
commercial bolt action should be able to handle 5.56mm ammo. Some
may not realize this but 5.56 62 gr ammo is loaded to higher pressure
than 55 gr ammo, but I prefer 55 gr ammo anyway. I remember a
magazine article about an interview with Bill Ruger late in his life
where he made the statement that one thing he couldn't stand was
a weak gun. Obviously!
22" blue and walnut sporter that comes with rings and no sights in
.223 Rem cal. Since then I haven't fired it a great deal but the rounds
fired were a mix of commercial .223 and various HS 5.56mm FMJ ammo
with their original bullets or HP bullets after originals were pulled. I'm
pretty sure the barrel twist is 12" so I have stuck to M193 55 gr ammo
and never used any green tip 62 gr stuff. I have not encountered the
slightest problem so far. From what I've read the short action 77MKII
is the strongest commercial receiver available today. But any modern
commercial bolt action should be able to handle 5.56mm ammo. Some
may not realize this but 5.56 62 gr ammo is loaded to higher pressure
than 55 gr ammo, but I prefer 55 gr ammo anyway. I remember a
magazine article about an interview with Bill Ruger late in his life
where he made the statement that one thing he couldn't stand was
a weak gun. Obviously!
You can get a Remington 700 SPS Tactical with a 20" barrel, or a Remington 700 SPS with a 24" barrel for around $550.
They can be great shooters - or not. Remington's fit and QA on their lower end 700s isn't the same as on their high end 700s.
As an example, an armorer friend of mine recently worked on one purchased by an urban police department as a sniper rifle and while in the process of truing it up and shortening it by 3/8" to remove factory damaged rifling, he discovered that it also had .034" of run out in the middle of the barrel. Even if the bore itself was straight, the additional metal on one side of the bore would cause stresses that would affect point of impact as it warmed up.
On the other hand, I have an SPS tactical in .308 that with minimal work produced consistent .6 MOA 5 shot groups and consistent 1 MOA 10 shot groups with 168 gr SMKs and 44 gr of IMR 4064 in a FGMM case with a BR2 primer - and it'll do it with ammo loaded on a Dillon 550B. It's rock solid with a barrel that has bene stress relieved exceptionally well.
It still needed some work however as getting that accuracy in the field with a sling or bipod involved getting rid of the way too flexible Hogue over molded stock and replacing it with a stiffer composite stock with a aluminum bedding block, then skim bedding it for full contact at the recoil lug and rear tang.
I also replaced the X-Mark trigger with a Timney trigger as the X-Mark trigger, while adjustable is pretty mediocre.
The moral here is that I got a good one that was able to be made into a very good shooting rifle while still keeping the total right at $1000 - while the PD sniper rifle my friend worked on needed serious work and a new barrel.
-----
I also have a Ruger M77 Mk II Varmint Target.
It has a nicely tapered 26" medium heavy barrel and is a solid sub MOA shooter. It's accurate in the laminated stock, but while the stock is very stable it's also heavy and bulky with a target friend. I replaced it with a lighter composite stock as well.
Ruger must have figured that out as well as they have subsequently introduced the Hawkeye Predator model along side the current Hawkeye Varmint Target. It uses a 22" medium heavy barrel in a slimmer laminated stock, and had I had that option at the time, I'd have gone that route.
Ruger uses hammer forged barrels. The plus side is that this work hardens the bore as it is formed over the mandrel, including the rifling, so the end result is a very smooth and hard bore that resists copper fouling and has a longer life than a more using broached or cut rifling. The downside is that hammer forging induces an incredible amount of stress in the bore and the subsequent stress relief has to be very well done. In the majority of cases Ruger does an excellent job but if you get one that has not been properly stress relieved, the POI will start shifting as the barrel warms up.
The Hawkeye Predator and Varmint Target will both cost you around $900.
-----
I am not a big fan of the American rifles. The sell for half as much, but I'm not a fan of the recoil lug and bedding system, and you lose the controlled feed of the M77/Hawkeye design. You also quite frankly get what you pay for.
I like the overall low cost rifle concept and Remington executed that low cost concept exceptionally well with the Remington 788 way back in the day, as they would shoot even outshoot 700s in the same caliber and barrel profile due to a very fast lock time. They saved money on the bottom metal, stock, rear locking bolt and related receiver milling, as well as the bolt knob attachment but they didn't skimp on the things that were needed for accuracy.
They can be great shooters - or not. Remington's fit and QA on their lower end 700s isn't the same as on their high end 700s.
As an example, an armorer friend of mine recently worked on one purchased by an urban police department as a sniper rifle and while in the process of truing it up and shortening it by 3/8" to remove factory damaged rifling, he discovered that it also had .034" of run out in the middle of the barrel. Even if the bore itself was straight, the additional metal on one side of the bore would cause stresses that would affect point of impact as it warmed up.
On the other hand, I have an SPS tactical in .308 that with minimal work produced consistent .6 MOA 5 shot groups and consistent 1 MOA 10 shot groups with 168 gr SMKs and 44 gr of IMR 4064 in a FGMM case with a BR2 primer - and it'll do it with ammo loaded on a Dillon 550B. It's rock solid with a barrel that has bene stress relieved exceptionally well.
It still needed some work however as getting that accuracy in the field with a sling or bipod involved getting rid of the way too flexible Hogue over molded stock and replacing it with a stiffer composite stock with a aluminum bedding block, then skim bedding it for full contact at the recoil lug and rear tang.
I also replaced the X-Mark trigger with a Timney trigger as the X-Mark trigger, while adjustable is pretty mediocre.
The moral here is that I got a good one that was able to be made into a very good shooting rifle while still keeping the total right at $1000 - while the PD sniper rifle my friend worked on needed serious work and a new barrel.
-----
I also have a Ruger M77 Mk II Varmint Target.
It has a nicely tapered 26" medium heavy barrel and is a solid sub MOA shooter. It's accurate in the laminated stock, but while the stock is very stable it's also heavy and bulky with a target friend. I replaced it with a lighter composite stock as well.
Ruger must have figured that out as well as they have subsequently introduced the Hawkeye Predator model along side the current Hawkeye Varmint Target. It uses a 22" medium heavy barrel in a slimmer laminated stock, and had I had that option at the time, I'd have gone that route.
Ruger uses hammer forged barrels. The plus side is that this work hardens the bore as it is formed over the mandrel, including the rifling, so the end result is a very smooth and hard bore that resists copper fouling and has a longer life than a more using broached or cut rifling. The downside is that hammer forging induces an incredible amount of stress in the bore and the subsequent stress relief has to be very well done. In the majority of cases Ruger does an excellent job but if you get one that has not been properly stress relieved, the POI will start shifting as the barrel warms up.
The Hawkeye Predator and Varmint Target will both cost you around $900.
-----
I am not a big fan of the American rifles. The sell for half as much, but I'm not a fan of the recoil lug and bedding system, and you lose the controlled feed of the M77/Hawkeye design. You also quite frankly get what you pay for.
I like the overall low cost rifle concept and Remington executed that low cost concept exceptionally well with the Remington 788 way back in the day, as they would shoot even outshoot 700s in the same caliber and barrel profile due to a very fast lock time. They saved money on the bottom metal, stock, rear locking bolt and related receiver milling, as well as the bolt knob attachment but they didn't skimp on the things that were needed for accuracy.
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