.223 is it a good defense round?

[NFrameFred]

Originally posted by dennis40x:
The following questions are out of curiosity concerning the participants in this topic. How many of you have been involved in ground combat over a sustained period of time? Spray and pray seems too prevalent commentary in my opinion. What happens if the signature of muzzle flash is you're only defined reference for POA? Have you ever been in a beaten zone? What about suppressive fire? Who has employed the M14 or M16? Is this all armchair reading or personal experiences? The questions are not intended to be antagonistic. I want to gain a perspective of those involved.

Good points Dennis. The fact is battle tactics change and evolve. The style of standing toe-to-toe with foes like the British in exposed skirmish lines didn't totally lose it's hold on the military until the civil war and the advent of repeating weapons. The trench warfare of no-man's-lands of WWI gave way to open country and urban fighting in WWII in Europe, which was quite different from the jungle warfare of the Pacific theaters where we faced individual soldiers armed still with mostly bolt action weapons. Contrast that to the jungle fighting in Vietnam verses the throwback conflict now in the sandboxes.

Point is, no one shoulder fired weapon is suited to all those environments. Those who have been there and been under fire have their reasons for their opinions. Anyone who hasn't is armchair quarterbacking.

 

[Farmer17]

I always thought the .223 was a bit too light for a standard military battle rifle. A .243 Winchester might be better.

 

[walnutred]

Originally posted by Sverre:
Jellybean,

I'd really like to know what the SOCOM insights from the Stan or Sandbox are with respect to retrofitting the M-16/M-4 platform to 6.8 MM Remington, or some such caliber. Anyone know?

Cheers,
Sverre

I've mentioned this before but I remember my dad and oldest brother discussing the M16 when my brother returned from SVN in 1968. My brother liked the concept of the M16 but felt the caliber too light. Dad (Solomon Islands Vet) said if the Army wanted a good, light, jungle round they should have adopted a shortened version of that darned 25 Jap round.

A 6.5x45 in the AR platform would probably be interesting. I've never heard a Pacific Theater Vet talk down the 6.5 Arisaka round.

BTY, early M16 magazines were 20 rd, not 30.

 

[Jellybean]

Dennis, to answer your question, I've have no military experience. I have shot both M16s and M14s, and a host of other automatic weapons.

 

[WR Moore]

Originally posted by Sverre:
I'd really like to know what the SOCOM insights from the Stan or Sandbox are with respect to retrofitting the M-16/M-4 platform to 6.8 MM Remington, or some such caliber. Anyone know?

Cheers,
Sverre

The few I've exchanged comments with felt that the 5.56mm with the 75/77 gr bullets did quite well and is far easier to sustain than changing to an entirely new caliber requiring new uppers, magazines and ammo plant retooling.

Paying more attention to the basics of marksmanship is also a big assist and that was done in SF and the regular forces.