.223 Questions

[Clovishound]

I have been reloading .223 for about a year. So far I have only loaded 55 grain Hornady soft points using H 4198. I went hunting with these loads a few times, but didn't have the opportunity to light one off. Yet.

Anyway, powder is becoming more available, and I am starting to have a choice. I have been having good results with the 4198, but wonder if other powders might suit me better. I like the economy of 4198, I settled on just under 20 grains for my loads. Lately a new LGS has a couple different rifle powders available at better prices.

In particular they have H335. I was thinking of trying a bottle. They also have some 75 grain hollow point bullets available. I was wondering if they would have superior stopping power. Calculations show a couple hundred lb increase in foot lbs. Having said that, I noticed I can get higher MV with H335 and the 55 grain bullets which puts ft/lbs about the same as the heavier bullet.

No data for the 75 grain bullets and 4198. If I try them, I will have to get a different powder.

Any experiences with H335, and or heavier bullets in .223?

 

[drummer007]

At one time, in a standard Colt Hbar, H335 gave me the best accuracy with thrown charges and 69 grain sierra bthpm bullets. I was getting 10 shots groups of right around an inch @ 200 (again 200) yards.

You have to take into consideration the twist rate of your barrel when it comes to heavier than 55 grain bullets. Generally speaking, a twist of 1/9 is good for 69 grain or less and a twist of 1/7 is good for 80 grain or less.

 

[RussellD]

I use Ramshot TAC with all 55 Grain bullets. Varget is great for the 69 grain and heavier.

 

[ironhead7544]

I would pick the bullet you want to use for hunting and then look for powder. The 4198 is good for most uses with a 55 gr bullet.

There are some good hunting bullets at 75 gr weight. For deer that is what I would use. Check what you pick to see if deer is what the bullet is made for.

 

[Glynngaddy]

I have used 55 Nosler Ballistic tips with 27.2 grains of Varget for several years. Touch lands on bolt guns and load mag length for AR. Scary accurate. It comes to bottom of neck if you don't funnel too quick.

 

[Nevada Ed]

My 22-250 has a standard 1:14 twist and does well with all 55gr bullets. I have killed deer
with the 60gr Nosler Partition and the 55gr Federal Bonded "Bear Claw" .
The 70gr Speer SP bullet design just barely stabilizes in this barrel and the bullet company
states a 1:10 or 1:9 twist is better for these longer bullets.

The 52 or 53gr match HP and BT designs work very nice at light target loads and maximum, for me.
As mentioned, your barrel twist will dictate what bullet weights will shoot the best in your rifle.

My case has a larger volume than yours but I have had great luck with BLC-2, W748, 4895 and H380
with the lighter bullets. IMR 4350 for the 70gr bullet.

Good shooting,

 

[Clovishound]

FYI I'm shooting a bolt action with 1 to 9 twist.

 

[George_in_SD]

I would try some 69 grain SMK and Varget in your bolt gun

 

[KLYDE]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is the ticket for the 1/9 twist. Sierra 69 gr Match King and Varget. I picked up a couple lbs of XBR but haven't had a chance to try it yet.

 

[scha]

I use 24 gr H335 ( and the military version - WC844) with 55 gr bullets in my Mini 14. This is a load of around 2,900 fps.

Hope this helps.

Steve

 

[7P's]

With the 1:9 twist you might be able to go with a 77 grain bullet – some can, most won’t. With the 55 grain bullet, some of the go to powders that should produce groups running from 0.250” to 0.750” at best will be CFE223, Varget, H335, H748 and VV N133/135 - there are other powders that shoot good but like H4895, I've found that powder to shoot heavier bullets better etc.

To shoot 5-shot half-inch or better groups at 100 yards you need a good trigger and scope amoung the other requirements - without a good scope and trigger, an inch group or slightly larger can be expected as the "norm".

For a hunting bullet – the Nosler 64 grain bonded is a good choice.

 

[one eye joe]

You have to take into consideration the twist rate of your barrel when it comes to heavier than 55 grain bullets. Generally speaking, a twist of 1/9 is good for 69 grain or less and a twist of 1/7 is good for 80 grain or less.

WITH REGARD TO USING A HEAVIER BULLET, THE MOST IMPORTANT CONSIDERATION IS THE RATE OF TWIST OF YOUR BARREL. W/O THE PROPER RATE OF TWIST, YOUR BULLET WILL NOT STABILIZE IN FLIGHT.drummer007 GIVES A GOOD GUIDE FOR REFERENCE. WITH REGARD TO POWDER, DON'T SACRIFICE ACCURACY JUST TO SAVE A FEW BUCKS……...

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I have a Savage Target action with a 1:9 heavy 26" barrel. I use Lapua brass, Federal 205 M (match) primer, around 26 grains of Varget and 75 grain Hornady A-Max bullet seated to the lands. It is right at 2900 fps. I've been getting 3" groups at 1000 yards. At that range it has just under 300 Ft Lbs of energy, plenty for Coyote or whistle pig. You need a good rest/bi-pod and very good scope! Have fun. Ivan

 

[7P's]

I have a Savage Target action with a 1:9 heavy 26" barrel. I use Lapua brass, Federal 205 M (match) primer, around 26 grains of Varget and 75 grain Hornady A-Max bullet seated to the lands. It is right at 2900 fps. I've been getting 3" groups at 1000 yards. At that range it has just under 300 Ft Lbs of energy, plenty for Coyote or whistle pig. You need a good rest/bi-pod and very good scope! Have fun. Ivan

To shoot like that takes a whole lot more than a good rest and scope!!! You have to be one good wind reader as well plus have outstanding gun handling techniques.

I'm having a good day if I can get 3" groups at 300 yards - that's why most of us shoot at an 8" gong at 300 yards.

 

[fredj338]

I think 4198 is a Bit fast for top vel loads. H335 is better, CFE, Tac, etc are better still IMO.

 

[ageingstudent]

Whatever powder you choose try a box of the Nosler BT. I have a load with the 60gr BT in my cheapo 1:12 .22-250 that just puts a wallop on critters. Those Seirra Match King bullets are darned good also. I've been experimenting with reduced loadsthat match velocity with 22 hornet and .223. I was told H335 wouldn't work well in the 250 but in my experience it worked quite well with the right bullet.

 

[MichiganScott]

The OP stated that he had been using 55gr. soft points for hunting in his .223, so far has been unsuccessful, and wonders if 75gr. bullets would be more effective.

Exactly what game is the OP hunting?

That would determine the choice of bullet and load. He could use lighter bullets in the 45-50gr. range for ground squirrels or stick with his current load. If he is hunting hogs or deer, he would need something with more penetration like the 60gr. Nosler Partition, 64gr. Nosler Bonded, or any of the monometal bullets as produced by Barnes.

The OTM as produced by Sierra or the A-Max from Hornady are seldom good choices for hunting. However, some hunters do use them with good results, particularly in the larger calibers.

If the OP is hunting fur bearers, he might want to consider one of the extremely fragile lighter bullets to try and prevent exit damage to the pelts.

 

[shadyvalleyman]

I shoot 24.4 grains of H335 with 55 grain Hornady v-max. No problems here.

 

[Culina]

I use Varget for 69gr and heavier, H335 for everything else.

 

[Clovishound]

I have been unsuccessful because I have yet to get a shot off. I don't know that the 55 grain soft points are ineffective, just wonder if a heavier bullet would be likely to be more effective.

Feral hogs is the game I am likely to be taking. I won't be taking a shot at hogzilla, mostly in the 100 lb range, more or less. Shots will be taken under 125 yds. If a nice buck wanders into my sights, and I can get a good shot at him, I would probably go for it. Deer around here are small.

If I had known I was likely to have much interest in hunting, I would have gotten a 308. I thought I would be doing more target shooting and the .223 is much cheaper to shoot, and brass is always on the floor at the range.

Lots of folks use .223 to hunt around here, so I know it's doable, just want to have the most effective ammo I can.

 

[Nevada Ed]

For hogs I would grab a box of Nosler 64gr Bonded and see how they shoot.
Better than the 60gr partition in energy and penetration, just depends if they will
group in your gun at 150 yards or so.

There is also the Winchester 63 gr power point that some use on deer but can be hard to find.

Have not used the all copper bullets but they do have a long list of followers.

 

[SMSgt]

I load my Sierra 55 grain SPBTs with IMR 4198 for my Rem 788 and its 1/12 twist rate. It always gave be very good accuracy, so I haven't messed with it. It's not top velocity, but higher velocity never gained any noticeable accuracy gain for my rifle. I don't think I ever went above 55 grains.

I once shot a coyote in the back of the head running away at about 40 yards. There was a small hole in the back of its head but no exit wound anywhere, yet bloody brain matter was running out its nose. I have to assume the bullet simply exploded inside the skull.

On shots out to 300 yards, rockchucks literally blew up. I, personally, never considered the .223 to be a preferable (or even legal for deer in WA at the time) deer round. For them I broke out the Rem 700 in .30-06. Never needed a second shot with that.

 

[fredj338]

I have been unsuccessful because I have yet to get a shot off. I don't know that the 55 grain soft points are ineffective, just wonder if a heavier bullet would be likely to be more effective.

Feral hogs is the game I am likely to be taking. I won't be taking a shot at hogzilla, mostly in the 100 lb range, more or less. Shots will be taken under 125 yds. If a nice buck wanders into my sights, and I can get a good shot at him, I would probably go for it. Deer around here are small.

If I had known I was likely to have much interest in hunting, I would have gotten a 308. I thought I would be doing more target shooting and the .223 is much cheaper to shoot, and brass is always on the floor at the range.

Lots of folks use .223 to hunt around here, so I know it's doable, just want to have the most effective ammo I can.

IMO, 55gr softs are not adequate for clean kills on game larger than coyotes, imo. If you like hunting hogs with your ar/223, step up to premium bullets like the Barnes 60gr+ or Nosler partitions. Better still, get a 6.8 or 300BO upper. The 223 is a varmint round adapted to combat. It was never designed to kill large game cleanly. If you are willing to do headshots, well, anything works there.

 

[msinc]

H335 is an excellent powder...H322 is even better. But, for all around general use and the best accuracy I have always found Winchester 748 extremely very hard to beat. 26.0 grains to be exact. Put them all in a dime at 100 meters with three of my rifles.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

The Sierra loading manual has a "Accuracy" for each of their bullets. When I bought a Cooper 21 (about 10 years ago) It came with a factory target for 3 shots of .016 (total size of group, minus the diameter of .224) It listed on the target the bullet (Blitzking 50 gr.) and powder (H 335) and no other data. I looked in Sierra's manual and that was the "Accuracy" load's powder so I used their data and made 10 rounds and drove to the club and shot 2-5 shot groups. One was about 3/4" the other was 7/8". Disappointed, I went home and started to see what was wrong. I had loaded to listed COAL, so I took a measurement of the chamber. It turned out to be a 5.56 NATO chamber. I neck sized the same 10 cases and loaded with the same components as before, but had the bullet touching the lands (.290 longer than before). Returning to the range, shot 2- 5 shot groups; one was .008" and the other was .010". Distance off the lands is one of the keys to accuracy in many riffles. Touching, 10/1000", and 25/1000" are common distances to start with, Take the best and work around it in 5/1000" five shot groups. The are a number of ways to get the chamber measurements, but to get the seating lengths you have to have a "Micrometer" (some brands call it competitive or bench rest) seating die. In this system there is no crimp, the bullets are held in place by neck tension-and that is controlled at the sizing die, with sizing collets. I try for 4 to 6 1000ths" of tension. To determine this, find case wall thickness and multiply by 2. add diameter of bullet and subtract .004. Example; Neck wall thickness .016" x 2 =.032 add bullet diameter .224 =.258 minus neck tension .004 = .254 That is the collet size for your sizing die. When I order a die set for a new cartridge, I usually order 3-8 collets in .002" steps. Different brands and lots of brass have different neck wall thickness. This is lots of work, but well worth it. I still have that Cooper 21 and keep 150 rounds of ammo for it on the shelf at all times, just in case! I just moved, but my old backyard was 485 yards long (and ground hog free!) Ivan

 

[mtgianni]

I have been reloading .223 for about a year. So far I have only loaded 55 grain Hornady soft points using H 4198. I went hunting with these loads a few times, but didn't have the opportunity to light one off. Yet.

Anyway, powder is becoming more available, and I am starting to have a choice. I have been having good results with the 4198, but wonder if other powders might suit me better. I like the economy of 4198, I settled on just under 20 grains for my loads.

In

I use 1/2 gr more than that in my 222 for good results. There is more room for accuracy and velocity if use choose to look for it with 4198 and your 223. If you are happy with the accuracy keep it there. If it were me, I would look at a heavier bullet in the 60-65 gr range and slightly slower powder but the load you have has put deer down in the 222 for many years.

 

[Skeet 028]

Maybe I am opening myself up to criticism here but the 223 is truly NOT a great deer hunting round and esp not with the 55 gr SP. Varmint bullets are not good bigger game hunting bullets. Only good bullet for small deer is the 60 gr Nosler Partition. I actually shot a deer this year that had been hit 3 times with a 55 gr from a 22-250. All three blew up on the outer skin of the deer. Oh he was hurt alright..but the 165 gr SST bowled him over for real. Young fellow got his deer..but he had been chasing it for an hour and a half..Seriously..get some Noslers and either use Varget or H335..Maybe CFE 223 if you can find it. I do like that powder. In Wyoming to hunt deer etc you have to use at least a 60 gr bullet. I think Barnes makes a good X type bullet for the .223 22-250 clas rifles too.

 

[Geno44]

I'm not a hunter but everything I have read indicates that .223 is, at the very least, on the extreme light side for humane ammunition when used on deer. This looks to me like an excellent opportunity to expand your collection to an additional rifle in a larger caliber. I really like .243 as a caliber and .308 would be a good choice as well.

 

[Clovishound]

Thanks for all the replies. I looked at all of the posts, and did some new research. It actually has given me more confidence in this caliber for game in the 125 lb range and smaller. It also looks like I need a better round than what I am currently using.

LGS has Nosler 60 grain partitions for less than I can order them, plus no shipping charges. Next time I am by I will pick some up, as well as some slower powder like 4895 or Varget, or perhaps h335.