.223 Rem COL

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Magload

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Using Hodgdon Data for Varget and 55gr V-Max bullet I can't get my COL to match Hodgdon data. They call for a 55gr SPR SP and a COL of 2.200. Hornady calls for a COL of 2.230 with their 55 gr V-Max but they do not list Varget powder. My dummy load, first rifle load ever, is at 2.233 and just fits the mag and chambers fine. Drops into the Dillion Case gage nice also. I think I am fine just needed some reassurance before loading these up.

The second thing I am not sure of is it seams like the full length resizing die is making the neck to small. I am showing out side neck dia should be .253 and it is .256 before full length resizing my once fires brass from my MP15. After sizing it is .246 and a bullet will just verily fit after chamfering and deburring. What am I missing? Don
 
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If you are using Hornady bullets, use a Hornady manual (it's a good manual for all jacketed bullets BTW). I believe the dimensions you quote are the maximum SAAMI specs. The measurement for finished case size is important, and as long as your ammo chambers you'll be fine with the measurements you mentioned. You will notice a difference between once fired case dimensions and resized dimensions , but you need a "smaller" neck ID to insure good neck tension to retain the bullet which is important for a semi-auto...

I would suggest you not overthink sizing your brass. Your dies are sizing the brass within spec., and they fit and feed fine.
 
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I have Hornady #8 not the new one.

The 55 V max in that manual has a 2.250 COL and does list Varget.??

I have not used the V Max but is certainly seems like a longer bullet so the COL would be a tad longer.

Hodgdon data is not for the V max and usually Hornady data does not match the powder company any way.

Even with bullets with a cannelure and trimmed to length it often does not match Hornady data. There powder data is usally very conservative to start, but heck they make the bullet and tested it. I use their low end for a regular 55 gr bullet.

It is not a BT bullet so it will be tight and hard to start, you need to hold as you guide it up into the die.

Do you need the Hornady Varget data??
 
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Your loads sound good to go. With any bullet and with 55 gr. bullets the nose profile and tip shape will change overall length. All 55 gr. bullets for your AR will have an overall length from 2.200 out to 2.250". Blunt tipped like Hornady's 55 grain Spire Point and FMJ the overall length recommended is 2.200 but load and feed fine out to 2.230" and your V-Max is fine at your length. Sharply pointed 55 gr. bullets like military FMJ's can be loaded out to 2.250". Bullets with a cannelure just seat to mid-cannelure. Like mentioned don't overthink your case sizing as long as they fit your gauge. Hornady 9th Edition lists the overall length at 2.250" with the 55 V-Max. I'd try seating them to this length but not longer.
 
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The bullet needs neck tension, it's a press fit, don't sweat that. Oal, just not a big issue with rifle rds, especially AR rds. I can get most bullets to 2.250" in my mags. I load everything to that, regardless of data. Don't obsess with book numbers or your calipers. Good neck tension, cartridge chambers, good to go. Oal is only important regarding the bullets relation with the rifling. In most AR, you never get close to rifling, so load to max mag length.
 
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Magload said:
Using Hodgdon Data for Varget and 55gr V-Max bullet I can't get my COL to match Hodgdon data. They call for a 55gr SPR SP and a COL of 2.200. Hornady calls for a COL of 2.230 with their 55 gr V-Max but they do not list Varget powder. My dummy load, first rifle load ever, is at 2.233 and just fits the mag and chambers fine. Drops into the Dillion Case gage nice also. I think I am fine just needed some reassurance before loading these up.

Rule3 gave you the info, but I thought I'd confirm from Hornady 9th . . . their test data for 55gr Vmax used COL=2.250, a number often used so that it will be .001 under mag length . . . though many 223s can handle thousandths more. All other Hornady 55gr bullets used COL=2.200 (except 55gr GMX=2.185"), a number which suits the cannelure location on many of these bullets.

There's no issue using the shorter COL=2.330, but for magazine feeding and using other test data it's probably a good idea to got to "mag length" (2.250) for those bullets.

The second thing I am not sure of is it seams like the full length resizing die is making the neck to small. I am showing out side neck dia should be .253 and it is .256 before full length resizing my once fires brass from my MP15. After sizing it is .246 and a bullet will just verily fit after chamfering and deburring. What am I missing?

Frankly I've never measured. As mentioned above, flat base bullets will be a bit more difficult to seat, but as long as the neck inside is chamfered a bit they should go in without damage. If you see copper scrapings, either make sure the chamfer is sufficient or then worry about the die being bad.

Don
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Hope the above helps . . . I don't think you're missing anything at all :)

ETA: Hornady 9 shows Varget data for all 55gr bullets (except GMX) as Min=22.8gr (2800fps), Max=26.4gr (3200fps) assuming a 26" barrel, so YMMV.
 
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Rule3 said:
I have Hornady #8 not the new one.

The 55 V max in that manual has a 2.250 COL and does list Varget.??

I have not used the V Max but is certainly seems like a longer bullet so the COL would be a tad longer.

Hodgdon data is not for the V max and usually Hornady data does not match the powder company any way.

Even with bullets with a cannelure and trimmed to length it often does not match Hornady data. There powder data is usally very conservative to start, but heck they make the bullet and tested it. I use their low end for a regular 55 gr bullet.

It is not a BT bullet so it will be tight and hard to start, you need to hold as you guide it up into the die.

Do you need the Hornady Varget data??
Click to expand...

My Hornady manual is #9 and they list Varget fr their 52 and 53 V-Max bullets but not their 55gr. that seams strange. Checked their website but didn't find any loading info. I believe I am good to go on these loads. Starting 25.5gr Varget Max 27.5gr. Don
 
Manual #8 Hornady has for Varget start 22.8 and max of 26.4 grains. COL 2.250

The little difference in COL is not going to matter

I had a long thread (elsewhere) on the variance in H335 between Hornady and Hodgdon way, way different!
 
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Rule3 said:
Manual #8 Hornady has for Varget start 22.8 and max of 26.4 grains. COL 2.250

The little difference in COL is not going to matter

I had a long thread (elsewhere) on the variance in H335 between Hornady and Hodgdon way, way different!
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Thanks for the load from the #8 book. That is a little milder then the Hodgdon data but that is fine with me. I can watch the chrono readings and see where I am as I approch max. I suspect I will see better groups with loads in the middle of the range. Don
 
Magload said:
Thanks for the load from the #8 book. That is a little milder then the Hodgdon data but that is fine with me. I can watch the chrono readings and see where I am as I approch max. I suspect I will see better groups with loads in the middle of the range. Don
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It is for THEIR bullet as they tested the V max so it will be different than what Hodgdon tested.

As I mention Hornady data for a regular 55 BT W/c is lower than anything else printed for H335. I used the lowest charge and it cycled my AR and shot fine in a bolt rifle.
I usually use close to their max.

You have a nice wide range to mess around with,
 
Hornaday's 9th Edition DOES list Varget for the 55 grain V-Max. Overall length is listed at 2.250 inch and charge weights range between 22.8 and 26.4 grains. I'll also state that I consider the Hornady manual to be worth every penny invested and recommend any reloader have this manual. Because while the powder charges tend to run a bit lighter that Hodgdon or Lyman I've found that Hornady's data tends to produce the most accurate results.

Notes:

First, Varget does NOT meter well at all. So plan on adjusting every single charge thrown from a powder measure. I keep a pair of eyebrow tweezers next to my scale specifically for doing this and one granule of Varget weighs approximately 0.025 grains. Yeah, I've hand tweaked enough charges using Varget to know the weight of the average granule, it's a powder I've found to be capable of building extremely accurate ammunition.

Second, I haven't tried the 55 grain V-Max yet but it's on my list of bullets to try out. I have used the 60 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip which is a near clone of the 60 grain V-Max and with Varget it's a combination that can shoot under 3/8 MOA when I'm shooting well enough to do that. My most accurate load features a powder charge of 23.7 grains of Varget with that 60 grain Nosler bullet and the produced velocity averages 2963 fps. The rifle used is a home built custom featuring a 20 inch Shilen Match Barrel in 1:8 rifling.

BTW, even with a front and rear rest getting below 1/2 MOA is not nearly as easy as some think. ANY error in the trigger release or sighting can result in a distinct "flyer" when you are trying to hold center on a POA spanning just 1/16 inch at 100 yards.
 
The Hornady #22271 55gr V-Max has an over all length of .810" +/-.

My magazine on my bolt action 22-250 will take 2.40" but I have not had a bullet past 2.36" OAL give me good accuracy.
My shortest OAL for my rifle with the blunt speer 70 gr round nose is set at 2.32".

The V-Max style tip and ogive should not give you trouble hitting the lands or rifling with a factory setting. My rifle likes 2.37" oal with a lot of powders, over the manuals asking for 2.35".

Your .223 auto should be be ok with 2.20" with that V-Max bullet for a starting OAL but since you have 2.23" I don't think their will be any problems with a standard loading, with that bullet design.

Good shooting.

PS;
Varget in my rifle is very close to W-748 and both imr 4895 and 4064, if you run low.
 
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Twoboxer said:
If that's true, your Hornady 9th is different than mine lol.

Could you check again on page 152, 5th from the bottom :) ?
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Sorry you are so right i was looking at .223 Remington on page 682 and I see that is Handgun. Thanks for setting me straight I didn't even know there was a 223 handgun. Guess I need to start using the Index. Never to old to learn something new everyday. That is why I live on this site.

I also got Varget data out of my Lyman 49th and it petty much agrees with Hodgdon data. Hornady's load is 2 to 2.5 lighter for starting load and max is 1.1 to 1.4 lighter. That could be because Hodgdon and Luman Max is a compressed load. Plus Hornady's is for the correct bullet and the others is for a SPR SP. Don
 
35 cases cleaned, measured, deprimed w/full resize, measures again, chamfered and deburred, and primed. Now that I got my load thank to all you you guys I am ready to add Varget using my ChargeMaster. My scope mount comes in Wed then I can start testing. Thanks everyone. Don
 
Nothing to it!

Your where you should be on the neck tension. In fact sometimes I polish the expander button enough to reduce it a little.

I load all of the 5.56 to 2.30 because it will feed in all of the Magazines I have. The crimp grove it often above the case neck but since you can not get close to the lands in any AR chamber that I know of I just load them all that length.

The tip about other powders metering better was right on. In fact most AR shooters load a volume of ammo that eventually leads them to ball powders. Ball powder and a good measure will reduce the time spent reloading a bunch!
 
Geo. T. said:
Your where you should be on the neck tension. In fact sometimes I polish the expander button enough to reduce it a little.

I load all of the 5.56 to 2.30 because it will feed in all of the Magazines I have. The crimp grove it often above the case neck but since you can not get close to the lands in any AR chamber that I know of I just load them all that length.

The tip about other powders metering better was right on. In fact most AR shooters load a volume of ammo that eventually leads them to ball powders. Ball powder and a good measure will reduce the time spent reloading a bunch!
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I am not a high volume shooter being retired I go to the range 4 to 5 times a week and normally never shoot over 50 rounds. I can get closer to the rifling by loading one round at a time. To get very tight groups I may have to do this. I will work up the best load first and then start moving the bullet forward .005 at a time. I have measured the chamber of my AR so know what I have to work with. I douth the 55gr bullets will be long enough as there is a requirement of how mush is in the case. Switching to 69 or 77gr Matchkings I can start this testing all over again. Don
 
This Varget meters terrible in my RCBS 1500 Chargemaster. Never drops a low charge but always high and by more then a grain sometimes. I would tap the measuring pan to remove some and reweigh then take the tweezers and remove or add till I had 23gr on the nose and watch a scale a bit then put it is the case. The bullets seated nice and the crimp die finished the job nicely. If they shoot as good as they look I will be happy. I am using the 550B in single stage mode. Don
 
Magload said:
This Varget meters terrible in my RCBS 1500 Chargemaster. . . . I would tap the measuring pan to remove some and reweigh then take the tweezers and remove or add till I had 23gr on the nose and watch a scale a bit then put it is the case. . . .
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LOL that's exactly the way I use my Chargemaster for rifle.
 
I don't hear to many talk about adding powder to their loads if light........

but I have old equipment and one of my investment was a ......

Trickler.

After a few turns it is primed and ready to drop a few grains at a time. Heck, I don't even know if they are still made, with all the battery and electric powder throwers, now a days.
 
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