Andy Griffith
Member
What's your pet load in this configuration?
This is for 6"+ barrels.
This is for 6"+ barrels.
2400 + 200gr.358 LRN = A very happy .38 Special?
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Andy Griffith
Member
What's your pet load in this configuration?
This is for 6"+ barrels.
This is for 6"+ barrels.
Vanilla Gorilla
Member
I'll have to check my notes. I have used TVB 190 WFNs with good result over some 2400. We were shooting out to 200 yards with them and they really smack the rocks with authority.
Groo01
Member
Groo here
Lyman had a 200gr loading secion in the
older manuals [don't have a new one]
Is this in a 38 or 357 gun?
Try Pen bullets for info- or SSK.
Lyman had a 200gr loading secion in the
older manuals [don't have a new one]
Is this in a 38 or 357 gun?
Try Pen bullets for info- or SSK.
OP
Andy Griffith
Member
Sorry gentlemen, I forgot to say this is for "vintage" loads to mimic stuff made prior to, or just after WWII- suitable for K-frames of the period.
I have worked up a couple of loads to try tomorrow and see if they shoot to point of aim. Just wanted to see what they do with 2400. I've loaded them some time ago, but never with 2400, which I read was the best for the weight and velocity.
I have worked up a couple of loads to try tomorrow and see if they shoot to point of aim. Just wanted to see what they do with 2400. I've loaded them some time ago, but never with 2400, which I read was the best for the weight and velocity.
Alk8944
US Veteran
The only load I have tried with the Lyman 358430, which is nominally 196 gr but I have gotten up to 199 gr. cast 30:1, is 3.9 gr. Unique with a Rem 1 1/2. 2400 is really too slow, even with this heavy bullet, and Unique is a far better choice.
The box of Winchester Super Police which I have chronographed from is from the 1960s range. In my 5" M&P they chronographed at 535 FPS! This IS NOT a high power load as some think it was. Published data I have seen claim 725 FPS as I recall. My load chronographed at 692 FPS in the same gun, pretty close to factory claims but quite a bit faster than my chronograph results. What I would suggest is 4.5 gr. Unique, 4756, WSF, or Clays, any will give close to the same results.
These WILL NOT shoot to point-of-aim, guaranteed. Probably at least 12" high at 25 yds.
Paul5388
US Veteran
The Lyman 45th Edition, 1970, lists a 2400 load with a 195 gr 358430. The Max load is 9.5 gr at 893 fps and the start load is 8.0 gr at 734 fps. Both used a Remington 1 1/2 in R-P cases and were shoot out of a 6" M14.
Here's Phil Sharpe's data from the 1951 edition of "Complete Guide to Handloading", page 409.
You'll notice 2400 is only used with one bullet weight and it's moving along at a right healthy clip!
The seating depth needs to be adhered to for these Sharpe loads. The "SHP" bullet is a Sharpe Hollow Point.
Here's Phil Sharpe's data from the 1951 edition of "Complete Guide to Handloading", page 409.
You'll notice 2400 is only used with one bullet weight and it's moving along at a right healthy clip!
The seating depth needs to be adhered to for these Sharpe loads. The "SHP" bullet is a Sharpe Hollow Point.
Alk8944
US Veteran
Paul,
That data is from the 1937 "Complete Guide to Handloading". It is one of the early re-prints if the copyright is 1951 (There were only 1949, '52 and '53 copyright renewals). There is a chapter on the .357 Magnum and it's development, and Sharpe calls 2400 "New" at that time.
Very interesting book, I have a copy and refer to it often, but little of the data in it is too valid. Note that RSQ, SR80 and King's Semi-Smokeless are shown. None of these were available after the war (II that is). Also, very little data had yet been developed for 2400 by the time this was originally published. Check the .357 Magnum pages, he still recommends no one attempt to reload this cartridge! No 2400 data is shown for .357 at all.
That data is from the 1937 "Complete Guide to Handloading". It is one of the early re-prints if the copyright is 1951 (There were only 1949, '52 and '53 copyright renewals). There is a chapter on the .357 Magnum and it's development, and Sharpe calls 2400 "New" at that time.
Very interesting book, I have a copy and refer to it often, but little of the data in it is too valid. Note that RSQ, SR80 and King's Semi-Smokeless are shown. None of these were available after the war (II that is). Also, very little data had yet been developed for 2400 by the time this was originally published. Check the .357 Magnum pages, he still recommends no one attempt to reload this cartridge! No 2400 data is shown for .357 at all.
Paul5388
US Veteran
You're right, I was going by memory, but it's the 1953 edition.
I have the hard copy and the electronic one that makes it easier to copy and paste.
I have the hard copy and the electronic one that makes it easier to copy and paste.
Hoptob
Member
Alk, I would think Phil's warning about loading .357 was more like fine print in reloading manuals today... He did not recommend it but "It can be done by the careful man".
Mike
Erich
Member
I used a less-than-max loading of 2400 from an old manual (NOT the # 8
) to get 844 fps from a 1 7/8" snub (it went up with the barrel length) with my friend's superb cast 195-grain RN bullets. It's a very nice load.
I am happy to talk about the load data on email, but I don't care to post it as it's over present-day maximums.
I am happy to talk about the load data on email, but I don't care to post it as it's over present-day maximums.
Pinger4186
Member
Alliant used to publish data for these heavy bullets.. I have one of their old books, and it says
200gr LRN 7.1grs of 2400 for 38 Spec. +P @ 1.54" OAL 890FPS.
200gr LRN 3.3grs of Bullseye for 38 Spec. +P @ 1.54" OAL 795FPS
I use 3.3grs of bullseye with the Lyman 195gr (358430), and that gets 710fps from my S&W 642.
I never liked 2400 for 357 loads because of all of the unburned powder left behind. For those old lever guns with a longer barrel, it worked great though. I'm not sure how it would do in 38 Special loads, especially with a short barrel.
200gr LRN 7.1grs of 2400 for 38 Spec. +P @ 1.54" OAL 890FPS.
200gr LRN 3.3grs of Bullseye for 38 Spec. +P @ 1.54" OAL 795FPS
I use 3.3grs of bullseye with the Lyman 195gr (358430), and that gets 710fps from my S&W 642.
I never liked 2400 for 357 loads because of all of the unburned powder left behind. For those old lever guns with a longer barrel, it worked great though. I'm not sure how it would do in 38 Special loads, especially with a short barrel.
Erich
Member
It works fine with decent spreads, but you do have clumps of unburnt powder scattered in front of the gun.
Pinger4186
Member
lol yeah. I loaded some pin loads with it a long time ago. It was consistent considering how much unburned powder you get.
But hey, why put in all that powder if that much of it is not going to bet burned? I'm sure other powders leave some unburned powder, but not THAT much.
I'm cheap, so if i put in that much powder, i don't want to see how much of it isn't getting used. lol
Erich
Member
I'll have to think on that one, Pinger . . . good thing it's Friday.
bmcgilvray
Member
I worked up to the maximum listed 2400 load as published in the Lyman 46th for their 195 grain bullet only I used the old Remington 200 grain lead round nose bullet. Primers and extraction appeared fine and the load was initially accurate but opened up a whole new world in bad leading. This was likely do to the soft lead and the gunky old black lube Remington applied.
The load gave 842 fps from a Model 10 with a 4-inch barrel and 922 fps from a Model 14 with an 8 3/8-inch barrel.
The load gave 842 fps from a Model 10 with a 4-inch barrel and 922 fps from a Model 14 with an 8 3/8-inch barrel.
Erich
Member
Great pix, Bryan. I love that price marking.
Spotteddog
Member
Lyman #43 lists 2400 for .38 Special EXCEPT the 200 grain? Odd?
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