25 acp Reloading Quest

[stanmerrell]

I've always been curious about owning a Beretta 950 in 25 acp. It's a cool looking pistol and I've always wondered if the 25 was really as worthless as so many have said?

Beretta-950 hosted at ImgBB — ImgBB

So I finally bought one and picked up some S&B for it. The results were good but then I wanted to handload the round. I made a spicy load with bullseye and fired it today. Wish I had a chronograph, but I don't. It seems like a powerful round powerful enough to work with a head shot anyway. The I came upon this story which I though you guys might like. Here it is.

On the .25ACP and “Stopping Power” – The Smallest Minority

 

[alwslate]

I like the .25 ACP and have several, including two Beretta 950 Bs. The older ones before the useless safety was added to the US made ones that became the 950 BS. Yeah BS is correct. I have never handloaded the .25. Instead I have a variety of ammo and a chronograph and use the fastest 50 gr FMJ ammo I can find. S&B in my experience isn't very good .25 ammo. Winchester seems to be the best domestic brand but varies from lot to lot. Older Geco and some old Hanson brand I bought years ago made in Yugoslavia I believe will chrono around the original specs for .25 of about 830 fps out of a 950 Beretta. Penetration is deep in wet news print, equal to .32 ACP believe it or not. Handloading articles I have read have shown Unique to give the highest velocity with 50 gr FMJ bullets.

 

[alwslate]

I read somewhere that JMB was a fan of the .36 caliber Navy revolver as a fighting handgun and designed the .380 ACP ctg to duplicate the ballistics of the .36 cap and ball revolver. Well, it could actually be true

 

[rwsmith]

What I got out of this....

Anything you have is better than what you don't have.

I don't want to get hit with a bullet from ANY firearm.

In lieu of a chronograph, find something do to penetration tests on. Maybe compare them to Federal Punch or Hornady XTP. You might as well load FMJ because none of the tested bullets expanded any. Even the Gold Dots. Lucky Gunner has some tests into gel on their test page. (I made about 20 lb of Play Doh) However, I'd encourage you to spring for a Chrono if you are reloading.

 

[robertrwalsh]

I have two Berettas, including a 950. I own five .25 autos. I have gone so far as to reload for them as ammo is so difficult and expensive. They are fun to shoot but not a serious self defense weapon. They will certainly kill, but will not necessarily kill the bad guy before he kills you first, unless you are attacked by a hamster or exceptionally small guinea pig. However, as noted above, pretty much any gun is better than no gun if you need a gun. They also look cool and make enough noise to attract attention.

 

[BrBa]

I load for .32 acp and it's a pain working with components that small. Plus you have to be careful when dealing with powder charges of 2 to 3 grains. Even +/- 0.1 gr of powder can make a big difference. .25 acp would be even worse.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

32 S&W Short and 32 ACP are the smallest handgun and 22 Hornet is the smallest rifle I load for. My finger and thumb often got caught win seating bullets and these small cartridges. I'll pass on reloading anything smaller.

Ivan

 

[desi2358]

I have loaded the 25ACP for several years now. Does take a bit of practice and dexterity when working with the tiny cases. Never tried to soup it up, just wanted good, functional rounds at a reasonable price. Enjoy shooting them though being able to recover the fired cases can be a pain. Have used a large box on my portable range bench, shooting through the open ends and recovering the brass from inside of it to reduce lost cases.

I think the little guns are fascinating and fun to shoot. Based on penetration I think they are more dangerous than many people seem to think. Not the equal of a larger guns but beats fists in a pinch. They are quite capable of reaching the vitals if needed. I have owned a number of them over the years as I like to get different ones and try them out. Also find there is a ready market for the little things, if I need cash for another desired gun always easy to sell one. Currently have two, a tiny little Bernadelli vest pocket model and a Colt Junior (Astra Cub in disguise LOL). The Bernadelli is a cute little thing, the colt was rescued from the trunk of a car in the scrap yard and is the ugliest gun I own. So much pitting it is sad to look at but works perfectly and has a very nice bore!

 

[DWalt]

I have carried a .25 Galesi in my pocket holster for many years, never had any need to pull it. Was never interested in nor had any need for reloading for it. I tested different brand factory loads in it back when I first bought it, and found that FMJ CCI Blazers were the most dependable. So that is what I keep the Galesi loaded with. I do very little target shooting, maybe squeeze off a few shots per year in my back yard to make sure it works. Better a .25 in my pocket than a .44 at home in a drawer.

 

[ACORN]

I’ve told this before, but, a classmate of mine was riding in a top down convertible and was shot from behind in the head with a .25. The bullet penetrated his scalp, and traveled between his scalp and skull and came to rest at the top of his head.
An incision and a couple stitches to patch him up.

 

[dsf]

My new EDC -



Not exactly. Does win an award for oddest looking pistol though. I have a fair number of 25s and have started reloading for it.

A lb of powder goes a long way.

 

[glenwolde]

My new EDC -

View attachment 717379

Not exactly. Does win an award for oddest looking pistol though. I have a fair number of 25s and have started reloading for it.

A lb of powder goes a long way.

Oh I like that one. Same as the Webley?

 

[stanmerrell]

Thanks all. Good comments. I've read a few stories over the years about airmen that were shot down using a hidden 25 to get free of their captors. I like those stories. I'm not gonna be trading in my Glock 19 anytime soon, but it's been fun to play with the .25 it's a cool round/gun.

 

[dsf]

Oh I like that one. Same as the Webley?

Yes,

The 32 ACP is similar to the Webley also, but with an internal hammer.

 

[chief38]

I own only one .25acp and bought it only because I fell in love with the gun that shoots it, not the caliber. It is a Colt Vest Pocket M1908. I believe mine was made around 1912 if I recall. I also have a M1908 series M in .380acp and a 1903 series M in 32acp. Although they are all incredibly well made, beautiful guns in great condition (all with two tone mag's) designed by none other than JM Browning, I'd not carry any of them as a primary SD gun because of the caliber. OK - may be the .25acp as a last ditch back up gun, but never as a primary.

Because of this I usually shoot each gun only once, maybe twice a year and only one box at a time. I just do that for fun and so I don't burn through a lot of ammo. I have never reloaded those 3 calibers for only a few boxes a year. I doubt I'd ever pay for the Dies - lol.

 

[desi2358]

I’ve told this before, but, a classmate of mine was riding in a top down convertible and was shot from behind in the head with a .25. The bullet penetrated his scalp, and traveled between his scalp and skull and came to rest at the top of his head.
An incision and a couple stitches to patch him up.

That kind of weird thing has happened with larger calibers too. I believe it was Jim Cirillo who wrote about a case when he was working as part of the Stakeout Squad in New York. Shot an armed criminal in the head at short range with a 38. Coroner was getting ready to load him up when he suddenly sat up! Bullet hit his forehead and went up the outside of his skull under the scalp and IIRC out the skin at the back! Knocked him out when he should have been DRT! Some days you're just not meant to die I guess!

 

[WR Moore]

I can top Acorns story. Waaay back when, I had to go to one of Pittsburgh's police stations to pick up some paperwork. The detective I was supposed to see took me on a detour on the way to his desk to see a suspect in a homicide.

The deceased was a well known diminutive, hot tempered & violent, always stylish pimp who'd been found dead (beaten to death) near the Civic Arena. An empty Baby Browning Renaissance Grade .25 and a number of empty shell casings were found by the body.

The suspect was one of his former .....employees, a large well endowed woman, known to the detective, who'd admitted killing him. He'd believed she'd been shorting him on his....management fees. The detective greeted her and asked her very gently why she'd done it.

The suspect looked at him like he was crazy. She then yanked her plunging neckline aside and displayed her most prominent assets stating "Honey, the mother plucker done shot me!" This produced an EF Hutton moment of reverent silence long before the commercials. Then someone noticed the bullet wounds and she was rushed to the ER. Xrays showed none of the bullets made it to the rib cage, much less penetrated it.

A wide variety of .25 backup guns were widely available thereafter for $5. And, the charge was nol prossed as self defense. The definition might have been stretched a wee bit.

I'm also personally aware of 2 cases where .38 RNL out of snubby's skidded around the skull. They don't call that part the cranial vault for nothing. FWIW, one was an FBI agent on the way into a bank and the distance was that between the inner and outer entrance doors. He was getting attaboys from responding officers until the EMTs arrived and realized the robber was alive.

 

[venomballistics]

I read somewhere that JMB was a fan of the .36 caliber Navy revolver as a fighting handgun and designed the .380 ACP ctg to duplicate the ballistics of the .36 cap and ball revolver. Well, it could actually be true

the overlap of era's would kinda check out, so I'd entertain the notion. I'd also add that the old 36 was not and probably could not be complicated by the availability of hollow points .... a bit of a problem that seems to meet the 380. ....Seems to in some reports. I've never put the cartridge through the paces myself.
Though in the realms of "kinda like it" I've gained a good deal of respect for the flat point designs.
Simple, effective and uniformly dependable.
This will likely apply to the above quest of the 25.
meanwhile ... the greatest hurdle would be powder handling.
quite frankly, there just aren't and measures on the market that im aware of with the resolution needed for the cartridge.
Per Hornady data, min to max charge spread is typically 0.3 grains

 

[stanmerrell]

Powder Handling

meanwhile ... the greatest hurdle would be powder handling.
quite frankly, there just aren't and measures on the market that im aware of with the resolution needed for the cartridge.
Per Hornady data, min to max charge spread is typically 0.3 grains[/QUOTE]

True that...You want to weigh these charges. There's no room for such variation.

 

[DWalt]

Back in my old Southern Ohio home town, when I was a kid, a detective on the local PD was our next-door neighbor. All he ever carried was a .25 Colt auto in his pocket. I don’t remember him shooting anyone with it. It was a small town, and shootings were fairly rare events. At about the same time, one of the local banks had a guard in the lobby who also carried a holstered .25. Even at my tender age, I was thinking that something a little bigger would have been better. I don’t remember any bank robberies there.