3.5" 460 vs 4" 500

[treillw]

There on tons of opinions on this topic and there is no clear cut answer. Nothing is 100% effective, whether that be bear spay (thank God that hasn't been brought up yet), a .22 lr, .500 S&W, or 50 BMG. Nothing is guaranteed to work and it's just a risk you have to accept when you walk out your door into the wild. That's the way it's supposed to be. Wild. Uncontrollable. All you can do is do your best to be prepared. If you aren't comfortable with any risk, then you should just stay at home. Although there have been cases of people dying in the shower... sounds risky, think I better skip every other night... decrease my risk of shower death by 50%!

Thank you for the other suggestions - 10mm, light weight 44 mag, etc. I have considered these options. When it comes down it and I'm standing in the wilderness with a load of raw elk meat on my back and a bull's head draped over my shoulders at 4:00 am (like this past Thursday), the thing that is going to give me the most comfort is a gun with a lot of power. Carrying a long gun is not practical for me, unless I'm going into a fresh kill and there is very likely to be something there chewing on it. That's why I want a big revolver. I will do my part to train, be prepared, be bear aware, etc, but at the end of the day I'm not in control. God is and all I can do is trust him and do my part. When he's ready for me to come home, it doesn't matter if it's a grizzly, a car wreck, or the shower - I'm not going to escape it. Bottom line.

That being said, I have decided that the minimum I'm going to carry is a .454 Casull. I am still curious about the Smith cartridges though and I prefer the quality of the Smith. You guys have given me tons of valuable information about recoil on various guns, but I don't believe anybody has answered my specific question: which will kick more with a reasonably high powered round that you would carry for bear defense, the 460 i posted a link to without a comp, or the 500 which I posted that has a comp? Unfortunately I have not been able to find anyone who has one of these guns for me to test out. I will keep looking, but for now this forum is my best bet.

Thank you for all the advice on hearing protection, etc. I will be using my electronic hearing protection with the gun.

 

[7P's]

The 4" S&W 500 does not have a harsh recoil and is rather mild when loaded down to 1,000fps with either 400 or 440 grain cast bullets. The compensator works very well relative to perceived recoil - now as for muzzle blast - that puppy has MUZZLE BLAST and when shooting under a canopy - one probably needs to be double plugged.

The 5" Ross model has a lot more recoil to it, due to being non-compensated, at least that is my opinion and I had the 4" S&W 500 but the muzzle blast was just too much for my thin skull, so I went to the Ross Model. The OP would be happy with the 4" S&W 500 if he can tolerate the muzzle blast under a canopy for 50 to 75 rounds per session.

 

[treillw]

I'm all for muzzle blast. The louder the better. If I blow the ear drums out of whatever is trying to eat me before it sinks its teeth in too deep, it may run away.

Check out the link to the video below. While I don't really care for the video itself, fast forward to 3:40 and watch some of the videos that he has links to. Videos 1-5 involve bear attacks with guns, and 6-10 involve spray. I forget how many times exactly, but in at least one video the muzzle blast alone scares the bear away.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGllHkyCzJ0[/ame]

 

[ruggyh]

my risk of shower death by 50%!

That being said, I have decided that the minimum I'm going to carry is a .454 Casull. I am still curious about the Smith cartridges though and I prefer the quality of the Smith. You guys have given me tons of valuable information about recoil on various guns, but I don't believe anybody has answered my specific question: which will kick more with a reasonably high powered round that you would carry for bear defense, the 460 i posted a link to without a comp, or the 500 which I posted that has a comp? Unfortunately I have not been able to find anyone who has one of these guns for me to test out. I will keep looking, but for now this forum is my best bet.

Thank you for all the advice on hearing protection, etc. I will be using my electronic hearing protection with the gun.

The Casull (assuming Ruger, Tarus or FA) will have more recoil than an either X-frame, shooting 300 grain bullets.
The 500 4" has more recoil 460 3.5", but not a lot until you start using heavy bullets.

I known you did not ask but I would opt for the 5" 460- less recoil of the other two, readily available at better price point and accuracy will be no different and a few fps bonus.

For bear protection (not hunting) with the 460 I would load a 340 to 360 grain WFN Hard Cast bullet with a meplat of greater than 70% and run then at no more 1600 fps- these will exit any bear you will encounter and the wound channel will be massive.

and again lots of practice.

Good luck and be safe
Ruggy

 

[ISCS Yoda]

WOW!!! Indirectly, you made this a bear thread! We all love bear threads!

My first comment:

Do you plan to wear hearing protection when in the woods? These rounds will damage hearing with a single round.

It's a foregone conclusion that if you're woods walking, not at a range or literally hunting, you're unlikely to wear hearing protection. You want to hear everything going on around you. Trust me on this - in an area surrounded by trees, even a .22 LR will shock your ears, especially in a small gun. So be aware that no matter what happens if you have to fire your gun your hearing will suffer but, at the cost of saving your life, it's worth it.

So, now, about those guns.

If the recoil of the .460 (I will presume from comments above that the .500 suffers from significant recoil but there is an implication that the.460 is considerably less violent) is manageable - and that means you can get at least three accurateshots off at an attacker, 2-legged or 4-legged, then I guess you're good to go after you practice practice practice.

In most "bear threads" the argument has always been only a .44 Magnum will do and my counter-argument is always I can get 6 accurate shots off from a .357 Magnum, and probably a .45 Colt, before you can get three shots off from a .44 Magnum. Folks dispute me and someday someone will come to a range and I'll prove it. The point, however, is that if you're in big bear country and you do get attacked you have very little time to react and shoot so you want those rounds to all go where you try to place them. Bear spray (did someone mention bear spray? ) ain't gonna cut it.

To avoid copyright issues I give you a Google search on the latest news of such an event - copyrights are all evidenced URL by URL.

man attacked by bear twice - Google Search

You do not need a hand cannon for anything smaller than a big bear, however, 4 or 2 legs, so it's worth not overgunning for no reason.

So my final remark is if you simply must have a caliber that starts with no less than a 4 follow Mr. Linebaugh's advice and get a .45 Colt for the job - it's easier to tote than an X frame, too.

 

[treillw]

I have some of these on order for hunting with my .300 win mag with a muzzle break. I assume they will do the job for a revolver too. At the range, I can always throw a pair of ear muffs on over top of them if necessary.

Instant Fit Electronic Hearing Protection for Hunters & Shooters | SoundGear

Ruggy: I've though about going to the comped 5" 460. I wish they made it in 4", or less. Story of my life - they don't make what I want.

As I think about it more, I do like having a slightly larger sight radius on the gun. The super redhawk alaskan wouldn't be the most accurate thing in the world with that little barrel. But I don't want it to be huge either.

How about magna porting the 460 3.5"? There are probably dozens of threads out there, but is it effective?

 

[CDR_Glock]

I can get six fast accurate shots out of my 44 Magnum. Now my 454 or 500, I never tried.


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[PCH]

Absolute recoil is a factor of pressure needed to move a specific mass at a specific velocity. Recoil is LESS the larger the base of the projectile is. MORE area to disperse pressure. The 9mm- 45 acp recoil difference is because you are moving a bullet that weighs TWICE as much, 230 vs 115. We have spent $1,000s to lay in pressure equipment and Doplar radar to help small ammo companies with their pressure testing. If 20,000 lbs is used to push a .357 and a .45 to the exact velocity, and the bullets weigh the same, say 200 grains, guess which one will recoil more? The .357, because the base more constricts the pressure more than the area of the .45. To compare things, first, they should start on equal footing or you will end up with apples and grapefruits. We can test your ammo for pressure and velocity if you really want to know what your loads are doing. And now for the 460-500 insofar as flat shooting. When compared with EQUAL weight bullets, the 500 can always be pushed faster, hence, flatter shooting. This assumes equal length barrel and MAXIMUM charge for each. These guys ARE RIGHT, try any model of S&W 44 mag.

Recoil is a function of all these elements:
1) weight of powder, 2)weight of projectile, 3) speed of projectile, 4) weight of firearm.
In your example you must take into consideration all these elements. If the 357 is a lighter gun, using more powder, it will recoil more. If the 45 is lighter using the same amount of powder it may still recoil less because of the slide action. A true comparison, is revolver to revolver and auto pistol to auto pistol.
All things being equal, it is NOT true that a wider projectile will recoil less. A wider projectile is usually heavier and weight enters the equation. A wider projectile may function with reduced pressure, but pressure is not one of the elements used in calculating recoil. Recoil impulse may be affected by both pressure and powder used, the same applies to various cartridges. Therefore FELT recoil being subjective, is what makes most people think that one is inferior or superior to the other. Recoil impulse spread over 1 thousandth of a second is softer than recoil impulse spread over 1 / 3 thousandth of a second while actual recoil in pounds may be identical.

 

[CDR_Glock]

I want to get a high powered, compact revolver for protection in the woods. I am considering the following two options along with a common snubby little .454 made by another manufacturer.



Product: Model S&W500[emoji769]



Product: Model 460XVR[emoji769]



The two Smiths are pretty much the same size and weight - the 500 is 1/4 longer and the 460 is 3.5oz heavier.



Now here is my question. If you were to shoot a round with identical energy out of each gun, would the perceived recoil be higher with the 460, since it doesn't have a muzzle compensator? I'm not sure why they don't make a snubby 460 with a compensator.



EDIT: I was thinking about my first question incorrectly. I am wondering about recoil differences in these two guns due to the compensator. They are essentially the same size and weight. The major differences that would contribute to differing recoil between the two would be cartridge and compensator. I would imagine that the 500 would kick less than the 460 until you started getting into some super hot 500 loads. Where that balance point is, I have no clue. My logic is that if I can shoot a hotter round out of the 500 comp with less recoil than the 460 would give me, I might as well go with the 500 comp. Can anyone offer any guidance on this? If they still made a snubby 460 with a comp, I'd probably just get that.



Second question. I am a reloader. Can you load down a 500 to make cartridges that are similar in performance to a 460? My only reason for doing this would be if the recoil on the 500 was just brutal - I wish I could find somebody who had one of these to let me test it out. I have shot my brothers 454 snubby and didn't have any problems with that and heavy loads.



Third question. How would you carry this revolver? I will be using it for hiking, hunting, and fishing. Is a chest rig the best option? Any product suggestions?



Last question. Does anyone make night sights for these guns?



Thank you!

Recoil would be higher in the 460 because of the shorter barrel and no muzzle break.

However, since you're a reloader, you can customize your ammo to make your choice of either gun to be as effective as necessary yet controllable.

I opted for the Ruger Alaskan 454 because of the capacity. Buffalo Bore 360 Grain bullets.

I use a Bladetech Kydex holster, OWB. But I also have a chest rig.

For the 6" 500 S&W, I find my 350 gr XTP to be very comfortable. I only acquired an 8 3/8" 460 for distance schooling so I only use 200 grain bullets.


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