3-Cell Maglite: Enough?

A good move with a talkative, uncooperative thug was the flashlight held in the weak-hand hanging down. Your strong-hand was on your gun butt which kept the thugs attention.

While he's eyeing your gun hand tapping on the gun butt, you quickly bring up the metal end of the flashlight under the chin.

Then you stepped back to keep the blood pooling inside the mouth where the thug bit his tongue, and chin blood from getting on your freshly-pressed uniform shirt.

The thugs was then dazed, confused, and talking with a speech impediment.
 
This is interesting from the LE perspective but in my opinion a private citizen trying this should consider other options. Someone who is close enough to you to use a flashlight on them gets a vote on doing something back to you. :(
 
This is interesting from the LE perspective but in my opinion a private citizen trying this should consider other options. Someone who is close enough to you to use a flashlight on them gets a vote on doing something back to you. :(

In a serious fight where there's an imminent threat of bodily harm or death, there are no rules - only winners and losers.

This is just another item in the bag of tricks to use on violent criminals, attackers, and crazies.

The justification of deadly force always falls within the 5 Elements of a Justified and Lawful Self Defense.

Anyone who is serious about self-defense should know the law, not just what they think the law is.

If you want the best explanation of Self Defense laws, there's no one better than Andrew Branca. Law of Self Defense
 
Someone who is close enough to you to use a flashlight on them gets a vote on doing something back to you. :(

Are the 3 D cell maglites good enough for baton strikes?
Thoughts?
I think that the only chance of getting in a strike on a reasonably aware opponent would be via distraction or coming up from behind.
That said, take your best shot on a semi ripe cantaloupe and see what happens.
 
The large and heavy flashlight days in law enforcement are pretty much over because of police administrative directives and public sentiment. It's hard to imagine such flashlight (or nightstick / "baton") use in civilian non-law enforcement sitiuations, but some of today's many concealed carrier hobbyists live in a fantasy world where dreaming of such incidents is common. Reasonably prepared should be considered sufficient.
 
The large and heavy flashlight days in law enforcement are pretty much over because of police administrative directives and public sentiment. It's hard to imagine such flashlight (or nightstick / "baton") use in civilian non-law enforcement sitiuations, but some of today's many concealed carrier hobbyists live in a fantasy world where dreaming of such incidents is common. Reasonably prepared should be considered sufficient.

Carrying a flashlight is not considered a deadly weapon. It's an aid to seeing in dark places. It doesn't matter if it's a 2" keychain light or a 6-cell light.

How and where it is used is what matters. Knowing how to use tools is not a crime, and is useful information for hobbyists and trained carriers alike.
 
Carrying a flashlight is not considered a deadly weapon. It's an aid to seeing in dark places. It doesn't matter if it's a 2" keychain light or a 6-cell light.

How and where it is used is what matters. Knowing how to use tools is not a crime, and is useful information for hobbyists and trained carriers alike.

In exactly that context, you are right. Refer to some of your earlier posts; much variance in comparison with the above post. No argument necessary.
 
In the old west, hitting someone with the pistol barrel was called 'buffaloing." Wyatt Earp was a fan of using it on drunks.

Hugh O’Brian’s TV show certainly helped create some enduring myths!
 
A good move with a talkative, uncooperative thug was the flashlight held in the weak-hand hanging down. Your strong-hand was on your gun butt which kept the thugs attention.

While he's eyeing your gun hand tapping on the gun butt, you quickly bring up the metal end of the flashlight under the chin.

Then you stepped back to keep the blood pooling inside the mouth where the thug bit his tongue, and chin blood from getting on your freshly-pressed uniform shirt.

The thugs was then dazed, confused, and talking with a speech impediment.

You sound on this thread like someone who played fast and loose with the law, loved playing in the gray areas, and were just downright abusive, and enjoyed it.
Id have loved to see how your "career" went if there were Dash cams, body camera's and cell phones then---
Yeah, THOSE pesky things.
 
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You sound on this thread like someone who played fast and loose with the law, loved playing in the gray areas, and were just downright abusive, and enjoyed it.
Id have loved to see how your "career" went if there were Dash cams, body camera's and cell phones then---
Yeah, THOSE pesky things.

Nope. Didn't play fast and loose, didn't play in gray areas, was never abusive, but I did enjoy putting criminals in jail and prison. These were all people failing to comply with lawful orders, resisting arrest, and/or wanting to fight. The sooner you stopped that, the safer for everyone.

These were also the days when you only had a radio in the car, you often patrolled by yourself, backup could be long minutes away, and the officer was on his own surrounded by thugs. We did not have time to coddle and hug the criminals.

My career was successful, I put thugs away for life, and always slept well.

I'm glad they're cameras about now. It show thugs getting what they deserve when they commit crimes.

A street police officer's job is to stop unlawful criminal behaviors, not diagnose the state of mind of the thug.
 
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Back in the day I went crazy and bought a dozen 3 D-cell Mag's. I've given a few away but still have 7 or 8 and hang them in the closets of every room. I still have the original Mag clips the lights hang from and in fact I just replaced one last night because my wife grabbed the flashlight fast while walking away. She twisted it and broke off a tang. Luckily I had a spare in the shop. I am still using the Krypton and Zenon bulbs but might look into the LED thing. I know they are a bit antiquated but they have never failed me and I have no real reason to replace them as I use them for illumination only.

As far as using it as a weapon, I choose not to get close enough to find out how well they work. As a last resort, of course, you use what you have but in my home there are many other things to use first.

ADDED 09/25:

After reading this thread and thinking about my antiquated bulbs in the Maglites I did order LED bulbs. There is a noticeable increase in brightness. For the $7 bucks each it was a worthwhile upgrade. :)
 

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Are the 3 D cell maglites good enough for baton strikes?

Thoughts?

I wouldn't want to get hit with one.

You want a good sap, put a couple of bars of Ivory soap in a tube sock. It won't light up the night, but will definitely put your lights out. Used to see a lot of that in the prison I worked in.
 
I think OP was simply wondering , should the scenario arise would the Maglight suffice as a baton. The answer is clearly YES. As someone else said. It’s another option in a bag of tricks. For the same reason so many of you carry a knife and a firearm. The firearms are always#1 option to stop a threat. But sometimes things go sideways and you improvise. I for one will be reasearching the end cap and muzzle housing modifications that he spoke of. Options are a good thing.
 
This is a bit of a digression, but since the conversation has already gone in that direction, I won't feel too badly. Forewarned if you don't want to spend the time.

I was in LE before the introduction of the Kel-Lite. So we had a variety of billy clubs and batons, but these had various limitations. For most of us, the tool of choice was a sap or flat slapper.

Many of our social contacts were at watering holes, either inside or proximate. One limitation on flashlights, once the heavy duty aluminum ones were in use, was that carrying a flashlight in hand when both hands might be needed for grappling created a problem of what to do with the flashlight. Despite being reinforced, we found that steady use of the sap pocket to hold a flashlight would quickly destroy uniform trousers. My preference was the flat slapper. The sap pocket easily and comfortably accommodated it, even seated in the patrol vehicle. So one less thing to grab bailing out of the car on a hot call.

I only used mine on a few occasions, but it was very effective when I did have to use it.

Tight quarters, especially when surrounded, limited the effectiveness of the baton because range of movement is limited.

Even in that early era, drawing blood on an arrestee drew attention. More attention if this happened frequently. Even more attention if one's peers were working the same areas, making the same arrests, and drawing less blood. That would raise the question of situational control: "How did you get into X number of violent confrontations where you have to use this level of force this often and your fellow deputies do not? Where did you lose control?" Similar to being on the witness stand under cross examination and defense counsel asks when you stopped beating your wife. Not a good position to be in.

The introduction of chemical Mace was real assist to subduing violent offenders without the use of impact weapons (including flashlights). In some instances, Mace would not stop an offender from fighting. But it did diminish their vision, and one can't fight well if one can't see. It made it much easier to maneuver. In those situations, a long enough D cell Kel-Lite or Mag-Lite (we favored five cell) was extremely useful for grappling leverage. Since no blows were being struck, no blood was drawn nor were there any injuries. This was my most frequent use of a heavy duty flashlight, other than illumination.

I always tried to limit myself to reasonable force in the legal sense of the term. As I advanced and got promoted into supervisory than command ranks, this was the guideline for my troops; legally reasonable force. This worked well for me for a couple of reasons. One was that I had set the example so I was not requiring anything of my troops I had not done myself. The other was that I backed my troops. I was a real momma bear about this and was known for it. Before I had been promoted to where I had any real clout, I really took on administrators who did not back me backing my troops. So by the time I did get to where I did have major clout, my position, which had never varied, was well known.

Now that I am long retired, and old, I no longer look at any implement as an impact weapon. Besides my EDC pistol, I also carry a small container of OC spray. In my Jeep Wrangler, which is what we take into the back country (which is all around us given we live surrounded by national forest), besides my EDC, I have a large cannister of bear spray, in the event we get into a confrontation with multiple individuals looking for prey in the boonies. I still work out, but at this age I don't want a threat so close to me that I would need an impact weapon.

One advantage I had was that I was a power lifter, and looked like it. Even if appearance did not deter a violent offender, which if often did not, I did have a strength advantage. If the situation called for it, I was willing and able to use the various pain/compliance and control holds we had been trained in. Back then this included the carotid restraint.

Since we vary widely in ages here, the one recommendation I would make is to base your defensive implement(s) choices based on current and future physical capabilities, not past glories.

In my CCW classes I devoted a large amount of time to the laws pertaining to the use of force. This included the entire spectrum of the scale of escalation of force, not just deadly force. There is no such thing as too much knowledge.
 
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