30.06 Lyman 311041 seating depth

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

I just loaded my first 30.06 for my Remington 1917. The bullets are Lyman 311041 with gas checks, 3 lube and 1 crimp groove.
I seated them to just shy of the nose end of the crimp groove so you can barely see it. When I hold a bullet against a case it seems like the bullet will below the beginning of the shoulder of the case. I thought I had heard somewhere that the bullet should never go beyond the neck of the case.
To do that with the 311041 I would have to crimp on the first lube groove leaving the crimp grouve way out in front.

Are there any dangers to having the bullet extend slightly beyond the neck, or just it could cause leading from the burning powder finding bare lead.

oh and I used 28.0 grains of 5744

 

[lebomm]

There's also the risk, in warm weather, of losing the gascheck into the powder space and contaminating the powder with bullet lube. I've always kept the gascheck within the neck.

Larry

 

[txbirdman]

If possible you want the gascheck in the neck. If the check becomes dislodged it can cause damage to the barrel of your rifle as a secondary missle creating a ring in the barrel.
I took a mature 10 pt. whitetail with that bullet in an '06 using 32 gr. of H4895 (1950 fps) at 130 yds. It's a great hunting bullet but not the most accurate in my rifle. I would seat the bullet as far out as I could without exposing the lube groove and not crimp it at all since you're using it in a bolt action

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

When I hold the bullet against the case to compare if I put the bullet so the case check is even with the OUTSIDE of where the neck stops and the shoulder starts then the first lube groove is exposed.
When I hold it so the crimp groove is even with the end of the case the gas check is almost to the bottom of the shoulder. Allowing for thickness of the case I should seat the bullet so the first lube groove is just inside the top of the case.

I just thought, the case thickness is not paper thin, I wonder how the thickness would affect this.

QUESTION, I loaded 50 rounds, should I use my puller hammer and pull all the bullets? with 28 grains of 5744 I should get about 2,000 fps which means even without a gas check I may not get leading.
Right now the temp is 28 degrees outside and won't be above 50 degrees for another 3 months, I could easily shoot all these in the next week so wouldn't have to deal with melting lube due to temp. I may also use my Gibbs 1903A4 since I have a NOS 1903 barrel I have trying to decide whether to place the criterion barrel with and if a loose gas check screws up the barrel that would give me a reason to replace it.

 

[txbirdman]

Chances are that you'll not have any problems with shooting the 50 you have reloaded but that's up to you. I've never had good luck pulling cast bullets with a "hammer puller". Seems that I lose the gascheck and distort the bullet somehow. What kind of lube are you using? Most quality lubes won't melt that easily. I live in Texas and shoot year round. I can't recall having a problem with lube contamination.
I would seat the next batch just as you stated with the lube groove just inside the brass.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

I bought the bullets from Montana Bullet works so am not totally sure of the lube, but it is red.
Sounds like on Star Trek when Data was asked what it was drinking and he looked at it and then said "it is green"

anyhow, I will shoot these 50 and then seat further out

What I might try to do is "pull" the bullets further out, with the hammer puller you can "tap" it further out and stop where you want or if you go slightly too far you can reseat the bullet, the concern would be pulling off the gas check, so maybe I should leave these 50 alone

 

[txbirdman]

Yeah, I'd leave them alone.

 

[Forrest r]

I'd just shoot them & start over, a .014" soft copper GC isn't going to hurt anything. For your own piece of mind get a couple of 5 gallon buckets full of water down range & shoot a couple of bullets into them after you have the rifle sighted in. You want to find the slugs; they will tell you everything you want/need to know (the gas check will be where it's supposed to be if it was put on correctly).
The Lyman 3rd book on cast bullets lists the OAL of the 31141 @2.968"
I've shot that same bullet in the past, brother had the mold & out of several different 30-06's between the 2 of us that bullet shot the best in the 1800fps range.
That bullet/powder combo is easily doing 2000+fps, you might want to tone it down & work your way up. At those speeds you're going to open several cans of worms at the same time.
I prefer the Loverin style bullets for rifles, there easier to work with because they allow for a versatile seating depth. The Loverin style bullets look like the lee tumble lube bullets, multiple small grooves that can be used for crimp grooves like the Lyman 311466 for example.
I'll tell you how I work up a test load for my 03-a3 & rifles in general. It might not be the best way but it works.
When I work a CB load up for a rifle I always start with an empty case & a bullet that I'm going to try. I have a test case that I use anymore (test case = a sized case with the primer knocked out, the flash hole enlarged so that a piece of coat hanger will fit in it & the case neck enlarged so that a bullet can slide in & out of the case with minimal force/pressure), it just makes it easier to do the first thing you need to do when you work a load up for a rifle, establish a OAL. I put a bullet in the test case & push it back in (seat it deep), put the round in the chamber & then use the piece of coat hanger to push the bullet forward until it stops. Then I mark the piece of coat hanger with a marker right at the back of the case/flash hole. Then pull the test case out & if the bullet sticks in the throat of the chamber use a cleaning rod to push it out.
With the test case & the same bullet out of the rifle, put the bullet back in the test case & set it deep again. Grab the piece of coat hanger & push the bullet out until the mark you put on the coat hanger is in the same place/depth it was when you initially marked it when everything was in the rifle. This will show you the max OAL for that rifle/bullet combo, how much free bore you have compared to the crimp groove of the bullet & give you a measurement that tells you how much wiggle room (seating depth) you have with that bullet for max length that bullets will work in that rifles magazine or single feed bullets, ECT. You need to establish a max OAL that fits your needs. I set the max OAL on my 03-a3 to the max magazine length, I practice the service rifle positions with it.
So now I my bullet/bullet lube & OAL picked out, it's time to start doing test loads. I start with what I call boulevard cruisers (low & slow), light powder charges with the bullets seat low (deep) in the cases. I'll do this with 3 or 4 different powders, the bullets all seated at the same depth, all test loads shot at the same distance (50yds) & I try to keep the speeds in the 1300 to 1400 range to start with. I look for accuracy & leading with these beginning loads. If I get leading @1300fps it tells me to check my bullets DIA (fit) 1st, lube 2nd & bullet hardness 3rd. If there's no leading (good), I look for the most accurate load & note it in a log book. I do the same test loads at 1500 to 1600 & look for the same thing. Then I do the same test in the 1700 to 1800 range again looking for the same things (leading/accuracy). I take the speeds up until either leading occurs or accuracy completely falls off. Once I established the speed/powder combo that tested the best for that rifle/bullet, I'll start testing @100yds. I use the best powders/charges & start to seat the bullet out further testing different increments (this is why I like the Loverin design) until I reach my max OAL and test those loads. I look for the most accurate load with the different bullet seating depths. After that I'll retest the best load with the same OAL & small changes to the powder charge to dial that test load in further to get a finished product.
In doing these different tests I'll find how fast you can push the rifle/bullet combo before leading occurs or accuracy falls off. I'll be able to watch groups shrink and enlarge telling you when I've reached the optimal (sweet spot) of my load. It will also give me an excellent platform on where to start testing different bullets.
In reloading multiple cast bullets in several rifles over the years I've learned a couple of things.
Lead bullets like to out near or embedded in the lands & grooves.
The 1600 to 1900 FPS range seemed to do the best for me with different cast rifle bullets. Over the years I've used several different cast bullets, different lubes, range lead to super hard blends of lead, different rifles, ECT.
Once you find a good load stick with it. I can't tell you the # of people I've seen over the years still searching for El Dorado not knowing their already there.

Sorry for being so long winded, just trying to put a different way to do test loads out there.

 

[txbirdman]

Using the bullet you mentioned at the velocity your loading I assumed (I know) that you were developing a hunting load. If you want a good target load try the Lee 185 gr. .312 mould and 16 gr. of 2400. Seat the bullet as far out as possible (doesn't matter if the lube groove is outside the brass) to touch the lands if possible. I've wasted a lot of powder trying to find something to beat this combination in an '06 and have not found it yet.