What weight bullet is best for the .30/40 Krag round ?
.30/40 Krag
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Pisgah
Member
The original load was a 220 gr. bullet at around 2000 fps. But good results can be had with other typical .30-caliber bullet weights -- 130, 150, 165, 180, etc.
gwpercle
Member
Ground squirrels , hog , deer , targets, tin cans ... what we going be shooting at ?
A general purpose response would be 150 grains ...but that's not what I hunt hogs and deer with in the swamps of South Louisiana in an old military Springfield 1896 rifle . The old rifle prefers longer bullets .
Gary
A general purpose response would be 150 grains ...but that's not what I hunt hogs and deer with in the swamps of South Louisiana in an old military Springfield 1896 rifle . The old rifle prefers longer bullets .
Gary
I shot a lot of pulled GI FMJs 150gr in Krag. I bought some 1905 ammo cheap that was junk. I salvaged the bullets, long RN FMJ. They did shoot extra good in a cherry short rifle, no difference in run of the mill guns. I keep the pulled GI Krag bullets for my 1895 Win in 3006. It likes them and won't shoot spitzers worth a darn.
Here is the problem with light bullets in 30-40 Krag rifles. The long heavy bullets were required in early military rifles. The Krag had a 1 in 10 twist, but maximum velocities were 2,000 fps. Lighter bullets typically do not stabilize at that velocity. By the time the Model 1903 was introduced, it had been confirmed that a fast light bullet would work well in a 1 in 10 twist, so the 1903 standard velocity was increased to 2750 fps and shot very well.
I shoot mine regularly using lead 220 bullets coated with Alox and get great results. Remember that the sight is zeroed at 400 yards, but I find I can regularly hit a 300 yard steel gong with my loads using the sight. 4350 is a good powder for me.
Forgot to add one comment. Please do not hot-rod this rifle. The bolt has only one locking lug and the bolt handle rests on wood. The Model 1903 has basically three lugs, with one resting on the steel receiver, so please keep at or under 2000 fps. This 1900 era pair of military guns in image shows the bolt handle on the Krag vs the Model 1903. The 1903 image shows the lug just ahead of the rear receiver frame.
I shoot mine regularly using lead 220 bullets coated with Alox and get great results. Remember that the sight is zeroed at 400 yards, but I find I can regularly hit a 300 yard steel gong with my loads using the sight. 4350 is a good powder for me.
Forgot to add one comment. Please do not hot-rod this rifle. The bolt has only one locking lug and the bolt handle rests on wood. The Model 1903 has basically three lugs, with one resting on the steel receiver, so please keep at or under 2000 fps. This 1900 era pair of military guns in image shows the bolt handle on the Krag vs the Model 1903. The 1903 image shows the lug just ahead of the rear receiver frame.
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LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
The range of performance with the .30-40 makes it a natural for cast bullets. My .30 caliber molds include 170 RN-F, 180 RN, and 190 RN-F, all of which do very nicely in the Krag.
My old 1898 Krag has a barrel with .310" groove diameter, and I have read reports of others up to .314". This will undoubtedly affect performance with either jacketed or cast bullets, so it is worth the effort to slug your barrel and see what you are working with. With the larger groove diameters it might be best to change out your neck expander and use larger diameter bullets for best performance.
With my .310" barrel I cast bullets quite hard (50-50 mix of wheel weights and linotype, about 18BHN), Hornady gas checks, and a .309" sizer die with NRA-Alox lube. Result is .3094-.3095". I load for a half-dozen .30 caliber cartridges and like to use the same bullets. If I were loading specifically for the Krag I would probably invest in a .310 or .311" sizing die for my rifle.
I prefer powders in the middle of the burning range, particularly H335 and BLC-2, with velocities in the 1800-2000FPS range. Plenty of accuracy for hunting, and deadly on Colorado mule deer, very similar to .30-30 performance.
My old 1898 Krag has a barrel with .310" groove diameter, and I have read reports of others up to .314". This will undoubtedly affect performance with either jacketed or cast bullets, so it is worth the effort to slug your barrel and see what you are working with. With the larger groove diameters it might be best to change out your neck expander and use larger diameter bullets for best performance.
With my .310" barrel I cast bullets quite hard (50-50 mix of wheel weights and linotype, about 18BHN), Hornady gas checks, and a .309" sizer die with NRA-Alox lube. Result is .3094-.3095". I load for a half-dozen .30 caliber cartridges and like to use the same bullets. If I were loading specifically for the Krag I would probably invest in a .310 or .311" sizing die for my rifle.
I prefer powders in the middle of the burning range, particularly H335 and BLC-2, with velocities in the 1800-2000FPS range. Plenty of accuracy for hunting, and deadly on Colorado mule deer, very similar to .30-30 performance.
BlackTalonJHP
Member
The long neck makes it good for longer/heavier bullets. I would stick with at least 175 grain and up.
The old Krag is a great weapon to add to your collection, if you don't have one.
I have never seen another bolt action that lets the bolt slide back with just a minimal elevation of the barrel and the side magazine is another great part of this weapon. No messing around with trying to put a magazine of ammo in the weapon, just open, add ammo and close and you are ready to shoot.
I found that in the heavy brush and pine trees in Northern Calif. , the 180 gr round nose bullet plows through the brush and will bring home the little Black tail deer that live in the St. Helena mountains.
For the loader that has more open areas to hunt, the 150 gr spitzer design will shoot flatter out to 300 yards with the stock iron sights, if you have good eyes and steady nerves.
Just remember;
this rifle has only ONE locking lug...........
so you need to keep your pressures and fps down, not to damage this great rifle.
Enjoy.
I have never seen another bolt action that lets the bolt slide back with just a minimal elevation of the barrel and the side magazine is another great part of this weapon. No messing around with trying to put a magazine of ammo in the weapon, just open, add ammo and close and you are ready to shoot.
I found that in the heavy brush and pine trees in Northern Calif. , the 180 gr round nose bullet plows through the brush and will bring home the little Black tail deer that live in the St. Helena mountains.
For the loader that has more open areas to hunt, the 150 gr spitzer design will shoot flatter out to 300 yards with the stock iron sights, if you have good eyes and steady nerves.
Just remember;
this rifle has only ONE locking lug...........
so you need to keep your pressures and fps down, not to damage this great rifle.
Enjoy.
boatbum101
Member
Just to reinforce what's already been said shoot cast sized to the throat of your rifle . It's an accurate cartridge deserving of the extra effort . For best results a chamber cast or a " pound cast " will give you precise measurements to size your bullets to . Essentially the fattest bullet you can chamber within reason . Older barrels have much softer steel & use of jacketed bullets will eat them up . With cast you can utilize the full potential of the cartridge without shooting out an irreplaceable barrel . I've had good luck with the LY 311299 , gaschecked, some older moulds will drop around .314 if needed . I use same bullet in a 1903 30/06 sized to .310 . If you don't cast PM me & I'll give you some folks who'll work with you on sizing , alloy , lube etc .
Rpg
Member
We've kept a somewhat sporterized 30-40 Krag rifle at the family cabin for years. The cabin is at 9,300 feet above sea level on the edge of the Arapahoe National Forest. We regularly see black bear and occasionally cougars and moose.
It shoots best with heavy bullets: 220 gr is best, 180 works well. I have a small assortment of old ammo, some military (220 gr) and some commercial 220 and 180 that all works well.
As has already been mentioned, the action is slick: nicer than any contemporary bolt action but it isn't designed for the pressures associated with most modern bottle neck cartridges.
No need to hot-rod this cartridge: a 220 or 180 gr bullet at about 2,000 FPS works very nicely for anything you'd have occasion to shoot.
It shoots best with heavy bullets: 220 gr is best, 180 works well. I have a small assortment of old ammo, some military (220 gr) and some commercial 220 and 180 that all works well.
As has already been mentioned, the action is slick: nicer than any contemporary bolt action but it isn't designed for the pressures associated with most modern bottle neck cartridges.
No need to hot-rod this cartridge: a 220 or 180 gr bullet at about 2,000 FPS works very nicely for anything you'd have occasion to shoot.
Scharfschuetzer
Member
Good comments above for the reloader.
I've been loading for an original (un-sporterized) 1898 Krag for something like 40 years now. So here is what I've found.
Jacketed Bullets:
1. My Krag's bore measures almost .309." Krage bores can go from .308" to .310" and the throats are notoriously long for the original 220 grain military bullet.
2. Current 220 grain jacketed bullets taper much faster than the original projectiles making accuracy questionable.
3. In my rifle (with a very good bore), Sierra 220 grain RN bullets are inaccurate as they taper too fast and do not fill the throat. Hornady 220 grain RN bullets shoot very well and will often shoot 1 1/2 MOA.
4. With jacketed bullets, H4350 powder has produced the best ballistics and with 40 grains (imagine that) velocity equals the original velocity of 2,000 fps from a 29" barrel with an extreme spread of 29 and an SD of 11 for 6 shot strings. Accuracy with the Hornady 220 grain RN is excellent as noted in #3 above.
Cast Bullets:
1. I size the bullets to .310" or .311" and lube with Alox/Beeswax lubricant and a crimped on gas check. In addition, I use a separate neck expander and expand the internal neck diameter to .308" or I neck size with a 308 Winchester collet type die for a .308" internal diameter. The 308 Redding collet die sizes only half the neck and that works well and enhances good bullet entry into the bore due to a good case to chamber fit.
2. With the Lyman 311041 bullet (designed for the 30/30) of 170 grain, I use SR 4759 powder to achieve a velocity of 1,675 fps for 2 MOA accuracy. If loaded to a higher velocity, the accuracy goes south.
3. With Lyman 311334 bullet of 187 grains using SR 4759 powder to achieve 1,850 fps, accuracy is 1 3/4 MOA for 10 shot strings at 100 yards. This bullets keeps its accuracy at extended ranges due to its spitzer design. It's .300" nose riding design fills up the Krag's large throat well enough for good accuracy.
4. I seat the bullets to just barely fit length wise in the magazine in order to fill as much of the long throat as possible when the round is chambered.
5. For the absolute best accuracy with cast bullets in the Krag I use "Pufflon" filler over the powder which (depending of the load) will reduce group size by up to 40.%
I have found when shooting US Military rifles with a 1 in 10" twist (Krag, Springfield & M1 Garand) that 1,800 fps is the sweet spot for cast bullets due to their limited strength compared to jacketed bullets.
While I prefer SR 4759 powder (and have a good stock of it) I have also tried the 5744 powder. It also produced good accuracy and ballistics, but due to its high nitro glycerin content, the barrel heats up extremely fast. Heat is the enemy of long barrel life and original barrels are irreplaceable so consider that when choosing a powder.
I shoot at least 30 cast bullets for every jacketed bullet not only for their accuracy, but to preserve the life of the barrel.
187 grain cast bullet group and original Krag cartridges:
I've been loading for an original (un-sporterized) 1898 Krag for something like 40 years now. So here is what I've found.
Jacketed Bullets:
1. My Krag's bore measures almost .309." Krage bores can go from .308" to .310" and the throats are notoriously long for the original 220 grain military bullet.
2. Current 220 grain jacketed bullets taper much faster than the original projectiles making accuracy questionable.
3. In my rifle (with a very good bore), Sierra 220 grain RN bullets are inaccurate as they taper too fast and do not fill the throat. Hornady 220 grain RN bullets shoot very well and will often shoot 1 1/2 MOA.
4. With jacketed bullets, H4350 powder has produced the best ballistics and with 40 grains (imagine that) velocity equals the original velocity of 2,000 fps from a 29" barrel with an extreme spread of 29 and an SD of 11 for 6 shot strings. Accuracy with the Hornady 220 grain RN is excellent as noted in #3 above.
Cast Bullets:
1. I size the bullets to .310" or .311" and lube with Alox/Beeswax lubricant and a crimped on gas check. In addition, I use a separate neck expander and expand the internal neck diameter to .308" or I neck size with a 308 Winchester collet type die for a .308" internal diameter. The 308 Redding collet die sizes only half the neck and that works well and enhances good bullet entry into the bore due to a good case to chamber fit.
2. With the Lyman 311041 bullet (designed for the 30/30) of 170 grain, I use SR 4759 powder to achieve a velocity of 1,675 fps for 2 MOA accuracy. If loaded to a higher velocity, the accuracy goes south.
3. With Lyman 311334 bullet of 187 grains using SR 4759 powder to achieve 1,850 fps, accuracy is 1 3/4 MOA for 10 shot strings at 100 yards. This bullets keeps its accuracy at extended ranges due to its spitzer design. It's .300" nose riding design fills up the Krag's large throat well enough for good accuracy.
4. I seat the bullets to just barely fit length wise in the magazine in order to fill as much of the long throat as possible when the round is chambered.
5. For the absolute best accuracy with cast bullets in the Krag I use "Pufflon" filler over the powder which (depending of the load) will reduce group size by up to 40.%
I have found when shooting US Military rifles with a 1 in 10" twist (Krag, Springfield & M1 Garand) that 1,800 fps is the sweet spot for cast bullets due to their limited strength compared to jacketed bullets.
While I prefer SR 4759 powder (and have a good stock of it) I have also tried the 5744 powder. It also produced good accuracy and ballistics, but due to its high nitro glycerin content, the barrel heats up extremely fast. Heat is the enemy of long barrel life and original barrels are irreplaceable so consider that when choosing a powder.
I shoot at least 30 cast bullets for every jacketed bullet not only for their accuracy, but to preserve the life of the barrel.
187 grain cast bullet group and original Krag cartridges:
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I've had five or six Krag rifles and used mostly cast bullets in all of them. I was never comfortable with that one lug action and the newest Krag is well over a hundred years old. I gradually got rid of them all.
I've kept a Ruger #3 and a reproduction Winchester '95 carbine, both in .30-40. I think these are considerably stronger and safer than the Krag. However, load a Krag that's in good condition with safe loads from a reputable source and they will probably last a long time.
Cast bullets sized to .311" are quite accurate in my rifles. I've found the heavier bullets (around 200 grains) are generally more accurate than light ones. The few jacketed bullets I've tried in my Ruger and Winchester have very surprisingly not shot well, much poorer than cast bullets. These were in the 150-165 grain range with a few 180 grain spitzers (perhaps Hornady?)
Some day, I'll get around to trying the Sierra or Hornady 180 - 220 grain round nose bullets. I expect these to do well. There are probably many suitable .30-40 powders, but you could hardly go wrong starting with one of the 4350s.
I've kept a Ruger #3 and a reproduction Winchester '95 carbine, both in .30-40. I think these are considerably stronger and safer than the Krag. However, load a Krag that's in good condition with safe loads from a reputable source and they will probably last a long time.
Cast bullets sized to .311" are quite accurate in my rifles. I've found the heavier bullets (around 200 grains) are generally more accurate than light ones. The few jacketed bullets I've tried in my Ruger and Winchester have very surprisingly not shot well, much poorer than cast bullets. These were in the 150-165 grain range with a few 180 grain spitzers (perhaps Hornady?)
Some day, I'll get around to trying the Sierra or Hornady 180 - 220 grain round nose bullets. I expect these to do well. There are probably many suitable .30-40 powders, but you could hardly go wrong starting with one of the 4350s.
bulletslap
Member
For my old Krag Sporter a 180 grain .310 jacketed bullet at
approximately 1900 FPS, and a cast .312 200 grain bullet at approximately 1800 FPS works best for me.
Slug your bore as the sizes vary a lot, and examine the locking lug for cracks and set back etc.
My sporter carbine is my favorite walking around rifle.
Before mine would shoot a decent group I spent hours cleaning jacket and powder fouling out of the bore.
approximately 1900 FPS, and a cast .312 200 grain bullet at approximately 1800 FPS works best for me.
Slug your bore as the sizes vary a lot, and examine the locking lug for cracks and set back etc.
My sporter carbine is my favorite walking around rifle.
Before mine would shoot a decent group I spent hours cleaning jacket and powder fouling out of the bore.
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Bores do vary in these guns. Some may need a cast bullet as small as .309" or as large as .312" or even .313", but I've found .311" will work in the majority of Krags, just like in modern .308s or .30-06s.
Ivan the Butcher
Member
Just a historical note: When the government went with the Krag rifle and the 30 US cartridge, Springfield made 13 "Trapdoor" rifles in 30-40 for load testing. My book didn't say if they were rebarreled or purpose built.
However that shows you how low pressure and low thrust the cartridge is as it would be safe in a Trapdoor!
If you run out of brass, you can use 303 British by just resizing and maybe trimming to length. I never messed with 30 US, but did a lot of experimenting with 303 British using black powder and jacketed bullets (My Martini has Medford type rifling.) Modern Cases in this size will hold 40 grains, by weight, of FFFg Goex powder. You will need to use a drop tube, but there is room with a 220 grain RN bullet.
In my Martini (1903 Citadel) loaded with 40 gr FFFg and a Hornady 220 grain RN .308" bullet grouped much better than WWI or WWII British military ammo. It might be that the bullet length and profile are more important than a few 1/1000's inch diameter.
Ivan
However that shows you how low pressure and low thrust the cartridge is as it would be safe in a Trapdoor!
If you run out of brass, you can use 303 British by just resizing and maybe trimming to length. I never messed with 30 US, but did a lot of experimenting with 303 British using black powder and jacketed bullets (My Martini has Medford type rifling.) Modern Cases in this size will hold 40 grains, by weight, of FFFg Goex powder. You will need to use a drop tube, but there is room with a 220 grain RN bullet.
In my Martini (1903 Citadel) loaded with 40 gr FFFg and a Hornady 220 grain RN .308" bullet grouped much better than WWI or WWII British military ammo. It might be that the bullet length and profile are more important than a few 1/1000's inch diameter.
Ivan
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