$ 3000.+ Pistols

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7shooter

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Gun magazines frequently have articles praising 1911s which cost more than $3000. describing how great they are for self defense. It's hard to see how those pistols would in any way be more functional and effective than M&Ps or Glocks in the same caliber but with higher capacity at a fraction of a cost.

Has anyone here bought one or know someone who has ?

I don't.
 
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many, if not 100% of those custom gun makers buy very expensive ads in those magazines that tout them to the American shooting crowd........Those magazines make a large percentage of their income off selling ad space.........and dern few of them will do pieces on weapons or accessories if those companies don't buy ad space.

The American Rifleman & American Hunter are exceptions....but even they do pieces on/for companies that advertise with them... but my wife says I'm cynical as hell too........

There are some folks that just have to have the flavor of the month on handguns, rifles, cars etc.... & if one or more of the so called "knowledgeable experts" writers are proclaiming the merits of a firearm or modification, those shooters will buy them...........a good case in point is the piston set up for AR-15's/M16's/M-4's... for months you were a half wit if you didn't have at least 1 or 2 of your rifles set up with them... then...something else became the must have gun/ or modification...

I suspect that a very nice used Colt 1911A1, or a good used Kimber, Les Bauer, Springfield Inc 1911A1 would all do great & if any issues are found.. that they would be easily/cheaply remedied........ for far less money than that $3000 NiteTwitch Goober Booger Buster special that is touted on TV shows & magazines that the maker advertises in......

I guess I was very lucky & our friends were too, in that all of our commercial Colt 1911A1's worked correctly straight out of the box with round nose ammo & HP ammo... all of us either polished our own feed ramps or had someone else do it for us, with that one modification, we could all feed everything from empty cases/wad cutter .45ACPs ammo to roundnosed FMJ's or lead bullets of every type in our pistols.........


It's just my opinion that you'd be better served by buying a good used handgun & saving the extra money to buy a bunch of reloading components or ammo to practice your shooting with.
 
This is going to turn into a 1911 vs Glock or steel vs polymer argument for the next 35 pages.

Having gotten that out of the way. Those 1911s are not better or worse. It comes down to what you want to do with them. High end 1911s are often used for competition. Companies like Wilson Combat will guarantee specific accuracy at a certain distance with good ammo. M&P or Glock can't do that. The price comes from the quality of steel used, how it's produced and the fact that it's hand fitted. Those guns use tool steel and are milled or forged depending on the part. A cheaper 1911, say Taurus or RIA would have mold injected metal and the metal itself would be of lower quality. And not much on them is hand fitted. Hand fitting by a pro insures tight consistent tolerance. Those 1911s are not really considered combat handguns although they can fill that role.
So if you have money and are serious about bullseye shooting then this gun would make sense.

The other thing is better materials make for a better more reliable gun as well as a higher price
 
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In the shooting "sports", whether its bullseye, IPSC or IHMS, it is seldom the gun that makes the difference, its the shooter. High dollar noise makers will only go so far, the rest is up to the individual behind the trigger. In a lot of competition you have gamers, guys that have to have every edge. The short stroke mod, the too light trigger, or the latest comp. For the most part after a certain level its mostly BS.
 
I have read the very same thing and don't get it.
Had some buddies go thru that phase years ago.
Buy a stock.. in our case..Colts...then spend a load
tweekin it.
I picked up this...all the doo-dads I need or want.
I run classic hardball 230 gr and once in a while
some hollowpoints.
Nary a hic-up.
1986 vintage Colt Government Enhanced in Bright SS.
 
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There are some well known custom gun makers in Arkansas

and I think most of their products are true works of the gun maker art. Have owned one example from one of the companies and shot examples of the other company. Excellent products both, and if my budget allowed would own other examples.

Do I think the more you pay for a gun the better it is for self defense? Absolutely not!

It is the man.........not the gun!
 
it all depends on what you want that 1911A1 for........... there are some 1911's that are built to such tight tolerances that they have reliability problems when they warm up, ..there were some smiths/shops who had the NM type barrel bushing & barrel fit together so very tightly .........along with also using the old tricks of using a custom fitted, adjustable barrel link to insure a precise barrel/slide lock up, with a receiver & slide that were precisely mated...all made for a pistol that had reliability problems except when it was fired cold & clean........not something you want as a duty gun, or a pistol/firearm used for CCW to protect your life.........There was a reason Mr. John Moses Browning had tolerances built into the finest semi-automatic handgun that has ever been devised.
 
The "custom" build 1911 is a thing of beauty, and often the beauty is inside the gun. Hand fitting a 1911 for the ultimate accuracy, and trigger pull is expensive. Minimum gunsmith time is worth $60-$70 p/hr, and it isn't just the run of the mill gunsmith that creates these masterpieces. Many of you may have never heard of Richard Heinie, but he is regarded as one of the finest pistol-smiths in country. People are willing to pay $3000 to $5000 and wait up to 5 to 7 years for a Heinie 1911. You can get Nighthawk approved by Heinie, as he is trying to retire. If you ever handled and shot one of his creations you would understand. You will seldom ever see one for sale, as those that order them keep them and pass them on to their children. There are quite a number of these "Artists" that reach this level of mastery of the craft, but you will pay large sums of money for the honor of having one of the finest.
 
It all depends on what you want to use it for. 50 yd bullseye? A stock 1911 probably won't do it. It costs $$$ to make a gun that can shoot less than 3" groups at 50 yds.

For concealed carry/defensive use? Bullseye accuracy isn't necessary, but reliability is. Most are reliable out of the box, but due to looser tolerances the occasional one that won't run slips through. Again, some think it is worth $$$ to guarantee they get one that runs 100%.

Myself, I will pay $$$ for a target gun, but won't for a defensive gun. For defensive use, I want an easily replaced tool, not a work of art.

Go the right guy, you can get a gun that can do both. If built correctly, you can have both bullseye accuracy and 100% reliability. Mine has had several 1000 rounds fired through it, the only malfunction I had was caused by me trying to reload target ammo too light.
 
This is one case where it is all pretty much relative. One man may only be able to afford a used Taurus. As long as it functions reliably, he may scoff when another man spends $1,000 on an excellent M1911. Keep going on up the ladder and you will get to the man who considers $3,000 to be "walking around money".
 
A young man from another board enlisted in the Army and did a tour in Iraq. He saved his money up as he wanted a Nightguard and nothing else would do. He got one when he got home and did shoot it quite a bit. He'd had other 1911s before so knew the platform pretty well for a young guy. In the end he decided it really wasn't worth what it cost him and sold it. It was extremely accurate but not so much better than his other 1911s.
I'd wanted a high end 1911 myself but could never justify that price to myself Looks like now I'll never be able to afford one anyhow.
 
For quite a while I kept a newspaper clipping about an 80 year old crippled Kentucky widow who killed a 3 time loser home invader who was intent on killing her.

Her defensive too?

An .32 S&W caliber Iver Johnson revolver that she'd paid $20 for 60 years earlier.

"Will and Skill" win gunfights, the gun is merely the tool.

Reliability is the number one criteria I use when picking said tool. Caliber and brand are further down the list.
 
In the late 70's I went to Gunsite with a Pachmeyer 1911. It was soft shooting and accurate. I was proud of the gun and was deflated when Mr. Cooper made the remark that 6" at 50 yards is adequate for Pedestrians. I still have the 1911, but I carry a stock combat commander.
 
In 2011 - partly for the hundredth anniversary of the U.S. military adoption of the 1911 - I bought a gently used, basic Les Baer .45ACP. Nice gun, shoots great, nice to look at, but it doesn't provide me any more protection than any other .45 I've owned. Bought both IWB and OWB holsters for it, but have never carried it.

For most of the year here in the southeast, my typical carry is a lightweight concealed hammer J frame with a pocket holster.

To paraphrase the old adage, "the handgun that is sufficiently concealable, comfortable, and powerful to allow you to carry it everyday, is better protection than the $3000 custom 1911 that resides in your safe at home".
 
What's the difference between a $450,000 Ferrari and a $25,000 Subaru? (other than the obvious $425,000 price difference). They both will get you where you want to go. One will be faster (maybe, but you may be delayed by your discussion with the Highway Patrol). The difference is that the Ferrari will get you chicks, the Subaru, not so much. Same thing with the high dollar pistols, it's all about the chicks. (not so much of an issue at the stage of life I'm in :eek:)
 
Guys, I've read through this thread with interest. Please be patient while I put in my 2 cents worth.

Would I like a $3000 1911 as a self-defense gun? You better believe it! But understand I don't get involved in dusty, muddy conditions. I don't roll around in the grass. In other words my guns stay reasonably clean while I carry them and I service them regularly. I do have a high end production 1911 that I carry. I was in a position where I could purchase it at a reasonable cost.

If I didn't have this high end production 1911 I would have an Armscor 1911. They ain't pretty enough to brag on but they ain't ugly. They shoot well but they're no target gun. They're better than minute of trashy and that's all I ask of a defensive gun. The best thing is they retail for about half what my high end 1911 retails for and that was way less than half what your $3000 semi-auto cost. Your semi-custom 1911 has a lot of brag value for what that might be worth in a gun fight.

I know this rambles and probably doesn't make a lot of sense but what I'm trying to say is I certainly don't feel "disadvantaged" without a $3000 gun but I'd sure like to have one. :)
 
It all depends on what you want in, or out of, a gun and cost is relative. I've got $3000 custom 1911s and I've had stock S&W revolvers that brought over $3000. People say they'd never spend $XXX on a gun but it's surprising what you'll do when the want arises and if all you have experienced is stock polymer autos or base model 1911s or run of the mill, off the shelf revolvers, then it's hard to imagine what $1000, $2000, $3000 or more might buy you. And, "buying up" is addictive in the sense that, once you've handled/carried/shot guns that are better built, hand fitted, customized, whatever, it's hard to go backwards. Even Performance Center guns are often head and shoulders above their production line counterparts in terms of trigger feel, fit, and finish, for only a few hundred dollars more.

Obviously, whether we like it or not, quality costs money. In the gun world that fact is probably most obvious where 1911s are concerned. As the prices increase so do the quality of the components and finishes and the amount of hand work involved in the fitting and finishing of the gun. To a point, that translates into greater reliability, better accuracy, improved trigger, etc..

Of course, you can't get better than 100% reliability and few shooters will be held back by the accuracy of even a decent quality production 1911 these days. Beyond that is where the high end production 1911s start to come into their own with accuracy and trigger weight guarantees, more hand work, tighter tolerances, all forged components, etc..

Then there's the custom 1911, or any custom gun, really. That is where you start getting into the art of the build - the perfectly fit parts, the slippery smooth movement of the slide, the unblemished polish, the warmth of hand checkering and serrations, and the artistic touches that set each custom gunsmith apart from the other - when the gun has become a collaboration of your vision and the gunsmith's ability to render that vision in metal.

Honestly, there is nothing like having a custom gun built for yourself. The gunsmith that I use has done a lot of custom work for me over nearly a decade now. He has a sense of my "style" and what I like. He knows that he has the freedom to be an artist and not just a mechanic when working on my guns, to make calls on aesthetics as well as what components and tolerances. I have over $3000 into this Colt ORM 1991A1 .38 Super. It was built to be the all around, do everything gun that I wanted. It's has 9mm, .38 Super, and 9x23 Winchester barrels. It was made to fit me, the grip frame and MSH have been recontoured so that they fit my hand perfectly. It is smooth as silk, the trigger is just under 3.5lbs and is perfectly crisp and clean, it will shoot well under 2" with each barrel at 25yds. The gun was built to shoot and carry and it gets used all the time, it is my regular carry gun, I shoot it in Action Pistol and 3 gun, and, come deer season I'm going to see if I can't get a buck with it.
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Is that a lot of money? Yeah. But it is exactly what I wanted, I did not settle or compromise on anything. I've got other custom and worked over guns that I've put money into as well, that's just the way things work, you want something, you have to pay for it. The more you want, the more it costs.

I'm having a Commander built for my son to commemorate his accomplishments in the military. It will be his gun, the only one like it, built just for him. And, every time he picks it up, shoots it, carries it, lays it on the nightstand when he goes to bed, he'll remember that.
 
I think it is kinda like watches. If all you want to know is what time it is, an inexpensive quartz does a terrific job. If you want a piece of art you will probably want to go with a high end mechanical.

But it is not just "rich" guys who buy these custom or semicustom 1911s. There are folks who -- like with watches, by the way -- admire and appreciate them so much that it is worth sacrificing other things for in order to afford them. Nothing wrong with that.

Like they say, to each his own.:)
 
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