.308 in a 30/06?

[jimmyj]

Hi:
I have been advised that in a "Push Comes To Shove" time, a .30/06 owner out of ammo can fire .308 cartridges in his .30/06 with no ill effects and have acceptable accuracy.
Opinions?
Thanks,
Jimmy

 

[Hobie1]

No. .308 vs.30-06 headspace on the shoulder of the cartridge. You'd only end up way short with the .308 in a 30-06. It wouldn't even go bang and if for some strange reason it did the .308 would become shrapnel sort to speak.

Now I think at some point in time there was an adapter that would allow you to do this. The bullets themselves are the same physical size for the most part.

Hobie....watching and learning

 

[brucev]

It can be done. More than a few folks have discovered this when they mistakenly loaded a clip of 7.62mm into a .30-06 chambered M-1 Garand. The rounds usually fire just fine. POI will usually be slightly lower. And the ejected casings will have a funky looking shoulder/case mouth. But it causes no damage to the rifle.

 

[Hobie1]

?

The COL for a 30-06 is 3.170. The COL for a .308 is 2.690. These are first glance at Hornady's load data. That's almost a 1/2 inch difference in length. .480 actually. Don't see it happening. I have a Garand and a 700 .308 and load for both.

I am open to learning.

Hobie

 

[Hobie1]

As a matter of fact..

I'm going down to the cave after dinner and I'm going to put an inert .308 in my Garand. I don't doubt that you could load 7.62 in a Garand clip, but I think that it's going to chamber deep. Now if the Garand's chamber was dirty, it might hold a Nato round where it might fire. However, after experiencing M-1 thumb, I doubt it.

But, I could be mistaken. I do enjoy learning new things.

Except M-1 thumb.....

Hobie

 

[Hobie1]

enabled alert.

 

[handejector]

Three possibilities-
1> The extractor holds the rim, pin strikes primer, round fires and is HELD by extractor.
Mostly no harm-no foul.

2>The extractor holds the rim tight enough for detonation, but the pin knocks the rd forward as it strikes it.
Bad scene. Expect a head separation, lots of hot gas and/or bits of brass and primer.

3> In a push-feed like the Ruger 77 or Rem 700, I doubt it will even fire. If anyone tries it, get back to us when you can.

 

[Hobie1]

Ahh, extractor hold on. Plausible, not something I considered. All in all, I would think that things would be shakey at best. I'm going to try some .222 Remington in my AR tomorrow.
I'm not being annoying on purpose...it comes naturally
Hobie

 

[427mach1]

If anyone tries it, get back to us when you can

Make sure you get video and don't forget to look into the camera, and say, "Hey y'all, watch this!"

 

[Hobie1]

Make sure you get video and don't forget to look into the camera, and say, "Hey y'all, watch this!"

Here, hold my beer. "Hey Y'all watch this!!

 

[Hobie1]

Well, I learned

The .308 and the 30-06 are 2 different animals. I never bothered to compare them because I loaded what was appropriate for my rifles. However, they aren't close to the same. What surprised me was the .308 wouldn't chamber all the way in my aught 6. There was, by my rough guess, about a 1/4 inch sticking out of the chamber. If the bolt closed on that, it would probably, I think, fire out of battery which wouldn't be pleasent. I don't see any way it could be safely fired and no, no film at 11.

Hobie... I see I have mail.

 

[john traveler]

The US Army thought about the 7.62 NATO vs .30-06 compatibility for a long time before adopting the 7.62 x 51 NATO cartridge for service rifles and machine guns. The M1 .30-06 had been the service rifle since 1936, and the M1903 Springfield for several generations before that.

The 7.62 NATO (.308 Winchester in civilian clothes) will chamber tightly in the .30-06 chamber, such that the should dimension interferes slightly in the .30-06 chamber. It will chamber and fire, SAFELY with no case head separation, blown case, or other extreme gas leakage. The US Army tested this concept extensively (At Aberdeen Proving Gournd, I think) in field trials with M1 rifles and M1918 BAR, and M1919 machine guns.

I have personally fired many rounds of .308 Winchester in M1 rifles, Remington M742 rifles, and a few others. All fired with almost full velocity, and no damage to either rifles or shooters. The .308 case blows it's neck out to fill the .30-06 chamber shoulder. Still, no harm done.

In some rifles with tight chambers, the .308 Winchester round will chamber hard, and may require repeated attempts to chamber and fire.

I would not hesitate to fire this combination in a survival or self defense scenario.

 

[30-30remchester]

There is an adapter that is actually glued into the chamber of a 30-06 that allows a 308 to be fired. These are easy to install and remove according to the manufacter.

 

[john traveler]

In the M1 and M14 rifle designs, there are firing pin stops that prevent the rifle firing out of battery. Again, the US Army tested this compatibility extensively before adopting and fielding the 7.62 x 51mm NATO round for service rifle and machine gun standard.

 

[Hobie1]

I for one am learning things tonight that I never gave much thought to. More!!!>>>>

 

[john traveler]

C-H or maybe it was Hollywood Gun Shop had the .308-to-.30-06 chamber adapters. It was developed by the US Navy for adapting Garand M1 service rifles nto fire the newer 7.62 NATO round. It was called the "Navy sleeve".

I did a couple of these conversions, but they proved somewhat unreliable. You had to run a .308 chambering reamer into the chamber after installing the adapter to make the chamber reliably accept .308 ammunition. Often the sleeve would extract with a fired case, and you have to stop and reinstall it again.

US Navy armorers discovered the same problem and went to threaded and locktite glued in sleeves until they had M1 barrels chambered specifically for the 7.62 NATO round.

 

[wraco]

The beginning of hunting season I usually sight my rifles in for accuracy check.. This year was no different. My Son likes his 308 so I sighted his in first and figured it`ll be better if we both shoot the same cartridge so I sighted in a pre-64 M70 308 featherweight I have. After both were on target I sighted in my backup rifle, a pre-64 M70 featherweight in 30-06. For whatever reason I chambered in a 308 instead of a 30-06. Right on target when I looked through the spotting scope, but was sure surprised when I ejected a 308 case that looked more like a 38-55 case.

Not sure if the pre-64 extractor is what held it firm enough for the firing pin, but the primer was well struck. It did fire with no problem, but I won`t being doing that again.

Rod

 

[brucev]

With respect, I was referring to information I had read at a number of sources... primarily Culver Shooting Page... (CSP).

 

[john traveler]

If you compare SAAMI .30-06 chamber dimensions with the maximum .308 cartridge dimensions, you will see there is a only a couple thousandths of an inch overlap between the .308 W at the shoulder compared to the same point in the .30-06 chamber.

This overlap in dimensions was intentional as the US Army wanted a cartridge to replace the .30-06 that would not damage the rifle/machine gun or shooter if the combination was accidentally fired.

By happy coincidence (?) the .308 powdr charge is about 85-95% that of the .30-06, and the service bullets are almost identical (147 grains vs 150 grains, etc). Firing the .308 W in a .30-06 chamber will give a fully lethal bullet at almost full velocity. Yes, the combination is SAFE!

 

[EQGuy]

Many years ago I was scoring an Air Force shooter at a Leg match at Coalinga in central California and he was shooting a NM M1 Garand. I noticed his empty's looked kind of funny, like a 410 brass case with a slight crimp. I tapped him on the shoulder and told him to stop firing as he had picked up 7.62 NATO Match instead of 30-06 Match.
They fired fine. I have picked up a few of these funny looking fired cases on the line at several shoots over the years.