.32-20 +P ammo-Safe??

[Jim Watson]

How strange, we went for years with every gunzine article and many www posts warning "Don't shoot high velocity "rifle only" .32-20s in your revolver." Now we have an even higher velocity "+P" that doesn't trouble the board.

Phil Sharpe stopped at 28000 "pre-CUP" for a top rifle velocity of 1760 fps. Buffalo Bore says 2000 fps. No doubt they have Modern Powder for Modern Steel. but I wonder at their chamber pressure.

As Jeff Cooper said, you will do as you think best.

 

[silicosys4]

How strange, we went for years with every gunzine article and many www posts warning "Don't shoot high velocity "rifle only" .32-20s in your revolver." Now we have an even higher velocity "+P" that doesn't trouble the board.

Phil Sharpe stopped at 28000 "pre-CUP" for a top rifle velocity of 1760 fps. Buffalo Bore says 2000 fps. No doubt they have Modern Powder for Modern Steel. but I wonder at their chamber pressure.

As Jeff Cooper said, you will do as you think best.

This is a common misconception about the .32-20 "high speed" loads and why they have the reputation they do.
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the old high speed loads didn't blow up guns, they werent overpressure for the guns.
They used an early slow burning smokeless powder that burned inconsistently in handguns and often the powder burned too slow with TOO LOW PRESSURE such that the pressure curve was often so slow that the bullet would stick in the barrel while the pressure vented out the cylinder gap.
This is why you find many vintage 32-20 revolvers with cut down or bulged barrels but I have yet to see even or even hear of an example of a 32-20 revolver with a stretched frame or grenaded cylinder.

 

[lgeorge1]

32-20 rifle ammo

I would personally buy the Remington ammo that Midway has in stock and NOT the +P .32-20, to shoot in your Colt.

The Remington ammo is safe in a good condition handgun.

Thank you for response. I'm starting to consider shelving this gun & just continue to shoot the S&W .357. That's a 1936 item.

 

[lgeorge1]

32-20 ammo

HSM in Montana has a cowboy competition load that might work for you.

You have a nice looking Colt there.

Thank you. I did find some available on back order from Choice Ammo in Montana. Most places just say out of stock. They should add "forever" to that statement. I'll try HSM too.

 

[ammodave]

I use this forum 1st Generation Colt Single Action Army | Colt Forum for my Colt SAA questions.

 

[Jim Watson]

They used an early slow burning smokeless powder that burned inconsistently in handguns and often the powder burned too slow with TOO LOW PRESSURE such that the pressure curve was often so slow that the bullet would stick in the barrel while the pressure vented out the cylinder gap.
This is why you find many vintage 32-20 revolvers with cut down or bulged barrels but I have yet to see even or even hear of an example of a 32-20 revolver with a stretched frame or grenaded cylinder.

I've heard that one too.
Phil Sharpe showed a load for .32-20 revolver with Sharpshooter, several with SR80 but not the Lightning or 2400 he used for a rifle.
Sharpshooter came out in 1897, Lightning in 1899 and were used in factory loads for some calibers. .32-20 HV? Who knows.

I am sure Buffalo Bore uses powders which avoid that "slowdown" because they show a 115 at 1200 fps from a 4.75" Army. Wonder what vintage.

The old Winchester HV load was listed as ".32 Model 92 Special." They didn't want you shooting in in an 1873.

 

[silicosys4]

I've heard that one too.
Phil Sharpe showed a load for .32-20 revolver with Sharpshooter, several with SR80 but not the Lightning or 2400 he used for a rifle.
Sharpshooter came out in 1897, Lightning in 1899 and were used in factory loads for some calibers. .32-20 HV? Who knows.

I am sure Buffalo Bore uses powders which avoid that "slowdown" because they show a 115 at 1200 fps from a 4.75" Army. Wonder what vintage.

The old Winchester HV load was listed as ".32 Model 92 Special." They didn't want you shooting in in an 1873.

I can't say what Mr. Sharps reasons are, but one of the issues I've run into with the .32-20 and slower powders in revolvers are the inevitable unburnt powder kernals working under the extractor star and tying up the gun.
I load 9gr. of IMR 4227 under a 90gr. bullet with a heavy crimp to keep the pressure curve long and gentle in my vintage guns, and even with a heavy crimp the burn is so slow it is still leaving unburnt powder in a 20" barrel but is almost fully combusted out of a 24" barrel. But that same load is almost unusable in a revolver not because of the velocity but because of the amount of unburnt powder it leaves.

 

[DWalt]

There were similar light bullet factory HV loads made for rifles, in .38-40 and .44-40. I have never fired any of the long-obsolete .32-20 HV loads, but I have made up and fired some fairly warm .32-20 handloads using SR-80. Yes, I have a nearly full can of it. The story I have heard is that firing HV .32-20 in old revolvers may result in splits in the barrel forcing cone area. True or not I can’t say, never having seen an example of such a split.

 

[rct269]

It is HIGHLY unlikely you will find ANY 32-20 ammo from a name brand manufacturer that will damage either you or your gun. That's because they have Risk Managers on staff with a healthy respect for the Paintiffs Bar, one or more of whom who will sue the pants off of them if they do---and they will win that suit (hands down)!!

That's the bottom line on ANY commercially made ammo (including +P---which is a scam to separate you from your money)----just as are the guns "Rated For +P" !!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Alk8944]

I do not understand the reason for the original post. Midway lists 5 manufacturers .32-20 ammunition, Remington, Winchester, HSM, Black Hills and Buffalo Bore. Of these only Buffalo Bore is classified as +P. All of the others are standard pressure loads which are perfectly a acceptable for OPs 1906 SAA Colt.

Buy any of the first four and you have no worries. Just avoid the Buffalo Bore.

Don't be concerned about the "rifle" designation. .32-20 is and always has been a rifle cartridge, and Remington still chooses to refer to it as such!

 

[Beemer-mark]

Don't be concerned about the "rifle" designation. .32-20 is and always has been a rifle cartridge, and Remington still chooses to refer to it as such!

Sure were a lot of Colts and S&W made in 32-20. A lot more than rifles I'd bet.

 

[Alk8944]

Sure were a lot of Colts and S&W made in 32-20. A lot more than rifles I'd bet.

The .32 Winchester, aka .32 WCF, .32-20, was originally chambered in the 1873 Winchester rifle. It was adopted by Colt, also in 1873 for their Single Action Army, and by S&W in 1899 for the K-frame also chambered for .38 Special. The fact that there may have been more revolvers made for the cartridge does not alter the fact it was originally, and still is, a rifle cartridge. It was also chambered in Marlin rifles as the .32-21. SAAMI classifies it as a rifle cartridge too.

 

[cmansguns]

I wouldn't shoot it in S&W either!

I have a Smith & Wesson in 32-20 and it is a nice gun, pleasure to shoot but expensive as all get out.

Mine shipped in October 1921 per Roy Jinks, S&W Historian. My serial number is 105093, and it is my understanding that S&W started heat treating their cylinders for this gun with s/n 81287 and it is further my understanding that if you do have the heat treated cylinder then the Cowboy Action 115 gr. lead flat nose ammo as manufactured by HSM (Hill States Munitions) is safe for use.

I don't know about Colt's at all...were they heat treated? starting when?, etc.

One last thing, I had the gun over a year before last Christmas when I was gifted 3 boxes of HSM ammo by the wife. All she told me about the costs was "don't ask". I did see the receipts later and this stuff is bucoo expensive, approaching $2.50 per round from the one source she found which was a vintage ammo dealer. IF you see ANY of this ammo at Midway or others at $1.00 per round or a little more...you need to grab it quick because 2 minutes later it will be gone!

HSM uses new Starline Brass and loads the ammo at their factory making it "factory ammo".

I have shot only a couple cylinders through my S&W and those were shot at the only outdoor range in my area as no indoor ranges will allow lead ammo at all....so there is that to consider if applicable to where you live.

The experts are right............a VERY good case for starting a new hobby....HANDLOADING!

 

[Muley Gil]

Last week, I contacted Georgia Arms about resuming production of .32-20 ammunition. I received an e-mail back from them:

"Hello! Thank you for reaching out to us. We will more than likely run those again, however it will depend on when we are able to get all the components for it. Please just keep trying us back."

Dee Hunter

 

[sigp220.45]

I have a friend who was a rookie police officer in Sun Valley, Idaho before it was the big ski mecca it is now. When he started he was advised to get a .32/20 because “that’s what all the boys use”. He got an M&P and loaded with the whatever ammo they gave him, which he thought was “rifle only” stuff. I bet it was a common practice and may account for the .32/20’s reputation to “shoot clean through a man”, as the blues song says.

When I have a desire to shoot one of my .32/20s (both K frames) I’ll use .32 S&W Long if I don’t have any proper stuff on hand. Yes, it works. The cases are goners afterwards but I don’t reload anymore so it matters not to me.

It wouldn’t bother me to shoot the BB stuff in a Colt Single Action. A Colt Police Positive would be a different matter.

 

[Muley Gil]

"I don't know about Colt's at all...were they heat treated? starting when?, etc."

Colt used different steel. When WW I started and there weren't enough 1911s to go around, the US Gov't turned to Colt and S&W to build .45 ACP revolvers.

The S&W 1917s were required to be heat treated; the Colts weren't.

 

[Tom K]

As for higher pressure .32-20 loads, Brian Pearce wrote an article on .32-20+P loads in the April-May 2023 issue of Handloader magazine. I'll quote a bit of it here:

...
[FONT=&quot]Generally speaking, handloads that are within the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’ Institute (SAAMI) pressure guidelines can push 100- to 115-grain cast bullets to 900 to 1,000 fps from revolvers with 4¾- to 6-inch barrels. However, when handloaded to +P-style pressures (as outlined later), it can push the same weight bullets to more than 1,300 fps, which approaches the performance of the modern .327 Federal Magnum, but is operating at 15,000 psi less pressure and as a result, produces less muzzle report![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]... [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I do not want to delve into great detail about the strength of different sixguns, but guns that fall into the “strong” or “+P” category include all Colt Single Action Army revolvers produced after the year 1900 (or above serial number 192000), the Freedom Arms Model 97, USFA and Uberti SAA-pattern guns, the Colt Army Special and Official Police, the Freedom Arms Model 97 and Ruger New Model Blackhawk. Revolvers that I generally limit to “standard pressure” loads (16,000 CUP), or slightly above, include pre-1900 era black-powder production Colt Single Action Army, Model 1878 Double Action, Models 1892 and 1895 New Army and New Navy, Police Positive Special and the Smith & Wesson K-frame Hand Ejector.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][emphasis added][/FONT]

 

[lgeorge1]

Midway ammo. availability

I do not understand the reason for the original post. Midway lists 5 manufacturers .32-20 ammunition, Remington, Winchester, HSM, Black Hills and Buffalo Bore. Of these only Buffalo Bore is classified as +P. All of the others are standard pressure loads which are perfectly a acceptable for OPs 1906 SAA Colt.

Buy any of the first four and you have no worries. Just avoid the Buffalo Bore.

Don't be concerned about the "rifle" designation. .32-20 is and always has been a rifle cartridge, and Remington still chooses to refer to it as such!

If you notice the Midway ammo is out of stock w/ no estimation of availability. Too many gun people say don't use rifle designated ammo. in the old SAA. I have found some cowboy loads anyway.

 

[Warren Sear]

I would not even consider shooting +P, or rifle only ammo, or any ammo with jacketed bullets in my Colt Police Positive Special in 32-20 WCF, made in 1911.

The only ammo I shoot in it is my own handloads, consisting of 92 grain plain base lead round nose bullets over 4.0 grains of Unique. This combo gives about 900 fps.

If I want more power I go to a bigger gun.

 

[DWalt]

I have a friend who was a rookie police officer in Sun Valley, Idaho before it was the big ski mecca it is now. When he started he was advised to get a .32/20 because “that’s what all the boys use”. He got an M&P and loaded with the whatever ammo they gave him, which he thought was “rifle only” stuff. I bet it was a common practice and may account for the .32/20’s reputation to “shoot clean through a man”, as the blues song says.

When I have a desire to shoot one of my .32/20s (both K frames) I’ll use .32 S&W Long if I don’t have any proper stuff on hand. Yes, it works. The cases are goners afterwards but I don’t reload anymore so it matters not to me.

It wouldn’t bother me to shoot the BB stuff in a Colt Single Action. A Colt Police Positive would be a different matter.

Yes, the .32 Long cartridge will work in a .32-20 chamber. I once knew a guy who was fatally shot with a .32 Long bullet fired from a .32-20 revolver. It was an accident, he and a friend were butchering a cow. I never knew the details of how it happened as I was not present.